I gave it a go, because I’ll give anything a go. I will say this apparently I cannot lie down on a table that is slightly tilted with my head in that whole without triggering vertigo. Got massive vertigo every single time. That would last quite a bit too. It is relaxing while they are doing it but as soon as I sit up and move around it is horrible. And I don’t have benign positional vertigo. Don’t ever have this issue lying down and standing on a normal bed or anything. But on that one definitely. I stopped after the third try. I suppose it doesn’t help I was there with a migraine, but that I can do nothing about.
Geez, Myth, couldn’t they tilt the table so your upper body and head were raised?
Or didn’t you know to tell them that on other occasions you didn’t do well after lying with the head down?
Just off embargo: A study published early online in the American Cancer Association’s peer-reviewed journal Cancer, by Dr. Ting Bao and colleagues of the University of Maryland Cancer Center in Baltimore. It showed that 47 breast Ca survivors dealt better with aromatase inhibitors, in terms of joint/muscle pain and especially hot flashes, when treated weekly for 8 weeks with either real or sham acupuncture. The release said this compared advantageously with drugs used for this purpose, which can have undesirable side effects.
If it’s important enough, I can access and evaluate the full study, but it’s not a priority project for me.
One conclusion, according to the press release, is that “sham acupuncture” may not be truly inert.
— Begin quote from “david shapiro”
Just off embargo: A study published early online in the American Cancer Association’s peer-reviewed journal Cancer, by Dr. Ting Bao and colleagues of the University of Maryland Cancer Center in Baltimore. It showed that 47 breast Ca survivors dealt better with aromatase inhibitors, in terms of joint/muscle pain and especially hot flashes, when treated weekly for 8 weeks with** either real or sham acupuncture**. The release said this compared advantageously with drugs used for this purpose, which can have undesirable side effects.
If it’s important enough, I can access and evaluate the full study, but it’s not a priority project for me.
One conclusion, according to the press release, is that "sham acupuncture" may not be truly inert.
— End quote
So…there’s no value in going to an acupuncturist/acupuncturing person. Just randomly stick yourself with needles, anywhere you like. Same effect, at no cost.
I bet they didn’t really do “sham” and the fake points were close enough to be as effective. I mean, when I went to an acupunturist, he didn’t take out a measuring rod and find the points exactly – it was wildly approximative.
Cost saver if you could do it to yourself, but like massage, not practicable. For example, I tried to lift my head to see the needles, but I got stinging nerve pains when I moved. Much easier to have someone else do it.
I wish I had the money to go weekly, I really liked the experience. I need to look into this again.
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Bluesky, what reason do you have to discount DIY acupuncture/shamcupuncture? “Much easier” seems to be an assumption based on raising your head during the procedure.
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Don’t be so sure about the “wildly approximate” bit. Zeroingin on a point by intuition, or feeling (/seeing?) the energy pattern may be a closer description of the model practitioners follow than is locating a particular point on your surface anatomy (or over your deeper anatomy).
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By DIY needling I don’t mean lying on your hand until it falls asleep, then rolling your hulk off it to get a pins-and-needles sensation.*
*Of course, if it’s really pins and needles that float your boat, who am I to say thee nay?
— Begin quote from “david shapiro”
Zeroing on a point by intuition, or feeling (/seeing?) the energy pattern may be a closer description of the model practitioners follow
— End quote
Do you seriously buy this David?
Here’s another acupuncture study that just came out. Once again wasting money and misrepresenting the findings. Steve Novella pulls it apart:
Poorly done acupuncture studies are published every week, so I can’t write about every one that comes out. I probably would have passed this one by, except for the New York Times article using it to tout the effectiveness of acupuncture.
The headline reads: “Acupuncture, Real or Not, Eases Side Effects of Cancer Drugs.”
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/more-acupuncture-misrepresentation/
I have hit desperation so many times with this condition and have been willing to try anything to cure me. Acupuncture was one of them. I ended up going to the “guru” of acupuncturists in Knox who apparently works miracles. I committed myself to this and went on a regular basis and also took the herbal tonics he recommended. Unfortunately it didn’t alleviate any of my symptoms. After spending countless dollars on natural therapies I have now realised the only way to cure this thing is medication and lifestyle changes.
Take care
Kylie
A good link that was posted on VM Pro:
http://saveyourself.ca/articles/acupuncture-for-pain.php
“It’s all but over for acupuncture as a pain treatment. The recent science doesn’t just cast doubt on acupuncture — it puts more nails in the coffin, nails that are no longer necessary … all of this evidence is certainly the death of any realistic hope that acupuncture is anything more than an ancient Chinese superstition.”
Proof by the already-convinced: “putting more nails in the coffin.” I simply can’t believe that they hammered the nails into the right meridian on the unfortunate coffin.
:lol:
Acupuncture is definitely not a cure-all. I’ve had it with two different doctors, each with a different technique and different sized needles. One doctor was definitely better than the other at it. Neither one cured anything with it, though I will say the “better” doctor cleared up a really bad cold/sinus issue one day when he put the needles in my cheeks in the sinus cavities. He handed me a box of tissue - “you’ll need this” he said, and about 15 -30 seconds later, my nose ran like a faucet turned on all the way. Unfortunately, the acupuncture did nothing for my migraines, and I have never tried it for vertigo.
Neither article is accessible. S
I love acupuncture, in fact used to swear by it for almost anything. However in the last 10 hellish MAV months, it’s helped minimally. It DOES help decrease some symptoms (ie ringing ears, tinging toes, etc.) but as I type this, I am in tears since I am sicker than I have ever been, have nowhere else to turn, and acupuncture has been so disappointing. If you can find it cheap enough, I’d say give it a shot, but don’t count on it to help alone.
There is NO credible evidence that acupuncture is more than a placebo. Keep that in mind.
S
Acupuncture, even when administered by an accredited Chinese/Australian GP made no difference to my VM symptoms, tho I was hoping for at least some relief! I think, when we are feeling so ill we will try anything. I tried enough meds prescribed by my GP and they didn’t help either!!
Janet, can really empathise with how ill you feel and how desperate you are to find something to help. I urge you to keep trialling meds until you find one or a combination that will help control the horrible symptoms you have. I’m sure that with patience and determination you WILL get better and you will have a happy and healthy future to look forward to.
My struggle over the past four years hasn’t been easy but I have been determined not to give up and with the support of many kind people on this forum I have found the willpower to keep on trialling meds. I hope you have a supportive doctor who is experienced with MAV meds and can help you through this.
Regards
Barb
Scott, sorry 'bout that. Docs can access Medscape, presumably, as it’s designed very specifically for them. I’m on their distribution list presumably as a science/technology writer.
Maybe if you ask a doc pal to download it for you?
Or go to the journals directly:
Acupuncture and related techniques for postoperative pain: a systematic review of randomized controlled trials.
Br J Anaesth. 2008; 101(2):151-60 (ISSN: 1471-6771)
and
Acupuncture for pain and dysfunction after neck dissection: results of a randomized controlled trial.
J Clin Oncol. 2010; 28(15):2565-70 (ISSN: 1527-7755)
I think that we should not be so hostile towards placebo effects. The placebo is sometimes as strong or even stronger than the real effect of a treatment. It is also not sure that different treatments have the same placebo effect. Maybe the placebo effect from acupuncture or a hard to follow diet is much bigger than the placebo from a drug. In that case the former might be a better choice of treatment. Because basically I don’t care why it works, just that it works.
I have no idea if acupuncture works or not. And I haven’t tried it myself. I would however definitely not exclude the possibility that there is some mumbo jumbo way to, for example, meditate our way out of a migraine. Relaxation works on some level. Botox too. That is as close to mumbo jumbo we get. We know for a fact that “thinking” can cause depressions, a severe form of biochemical imbalance in the brain. In other words, outer things like thoughts or experiences can deeply impact our brain chemistry. Why is it then so farfetched that we could meditate or acupuncture our way out of a migraine? I don’t think it is.
I think we definitely should stay open minded. If a lot of research shows that some treatment is ineffective, then we need to accept that result. But otherwise, stay as open minded as possible.