Alternative therapy

Why is it that all naturopathic clinicians, nutritionists and other alternative therapists are against the use of anti depressants? I know these days anti depressants are being prescribed to kids as young as 5 or 6 yrs old which In my opinion is incorrect. scientific evidence shows that anti depressents used by kids can give then suicidal thoughts and they won’t know how to handle it so why do medical professionals prescribe it to them? Secondly as these alternative therapists are mostly if not all are against the use of anti depressents I’m sure they have some reasoning behind that. I know one reason is they want to sell their own products. But I also know pharmaceutical companies as soon as their patent on their previous anti depressent expires end up introducing a so called new and improved version of the same anti depressent for monetary benefits. I ask cz I’m freaking out that I have to be on an anti depressent for the rest of my life to control this crap and I’m only 31

Hi Nabeel,

Next time they mention this to you, ask them if they approve of a “natural” alternative such as St John’s Wort or even 5HTP. And when they say yes, ask them why that is OK and a manufactured antidepressant is not? The answer should be amusing.

:slight_smile:

Lol

Scott I’m coming to Sydney in a few weeks am taking u with me to do all the question asking haha

Nabeel,

I’d also be asking them why their brand of ‘alternative’ to medicine is better than all the other alternatives, e.g. iridology, acupuncture, homeopathy etc. Let alone why it trumps actual medicine. Ask them if they also believe in alternative motor mechanics as you want to buy some herbal petrol and have a homeopathic oil change.

Victoria/Scott

these alternative therapists have been in business for ages. And people benefit from them which is why they r still so popular. I myself went to a very popular iriodologist in Parramatta initially when no Dr was able to give me a proper diagnosis. The guys clinic was jam packed. The moment he looked into my eyes he told me a no. Of things that r wrong with me which was unrelated to MAV. BUT he was so shrewed that he had covered my whole body by telling me the basic things that could be wrong with me and when I said I have dizziness and visual problems he said see I told u had a problem with your head. Anyway what I did not notice is that he was giving the same products to all his patients from the same company for whatever illness these patients may have. From the moment I left I knew this guy was a fake.but the fact that he is running a practice in Sydney for many many years and so so popular. Check out his website www.pinnaclehealthclinic.com.au

Nabeel,

The Kardashians are also popular and have been in (big) business for ages. Doesn’t mean they have anything of value to offer. :wink:

What you have described are two of the most common logical fallacies. One: the argument from popularity, meaning lots of people like it and two: the argument from antiquity, meaning it’s been around for a long time. So what? Neither prove anything.

I had a look at the website. It’s very pretty with nice colours and a picture of a mountain but with no more substance than a chocolate box. Or a Kardashian. Have a look at these websites instead:

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-argument-from-antiquity

Irridology is pure nonsense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridology

Vic

[size=150]Why Do People turn to Alternative Medicine[/size]

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/why-do-people-turn-to-alternative-medicine/

Agreed. Also—Vic, when you said “logical fallacy” in that post, I wondered if you were an SGU fan. :wink: Love Dr Steve Novella! Yeh, words like “natural” and “alternative” have a warm and fuzzy appeal but that is the only appeal it has. Nabeel, why does the possibility of long term meds bother you so much?

Vic, Scott, alternaace

I read those links and agree that many alternative treatment options is just bullshit. But I can’t stop thinking that these meds which I am on is killing me and I’m gonna die at a young age. I am on the highest dose of cymbalta 120mg which is an snri and its keeping me at 70% on average. In order to get to 90% I have just added topamax to the mix and will see how that goes. Plus the words anti depressant or anti epileptic just freaks me out. I have read so much online about the cymbalta its not funny. the literature says it can damage your liver. I can’t help thinking that I am damaging my brain by taking these drugs long term. By weighing the odds I wud choose being on drugs any day than going back to my old state. But I am still scared to b on these drugs long term. I have discussed this topic in length b4 as well but still can’t seem to get over it

Nabeel,

At the end of the day, these drugs may in fact reduce our life expectancy but then so do other drugs that would likely not freak you out. For example, if you had to take a daily low-dose of aspirin to prevent a secondary cardiovascular event, you might not bat an eyelid but it can cause internal bleeding over time and stomach problems. Drugs like ibuprofen can damage the liver. An epidemiological study two years ago found that people who took a lot of vitamins and supplements were MORE likely to get cancer. Too much red meat apparently promotes bowel cancer etc, etc.

The point is you are exposed to nasty shit every day of your life. These drugs allow you to function again and so I’d rather have another good 40 years than another really crap 42 years. But then there is no evidence to suggest that anti depressants or Topamax reduces life expectancy.

My advice? Enjoy the moment and don’t worry about “what if”. You could be taken out by a bus tomorrow and all of this drug worrying would have been for naught. :smiley:

Cheers

Nabeel,

The passage of time reduces life expectancy. Fact. :wink:

Seriously, you can wind yourself up in knots worrying about possible side effects or you can get on with living a healthy life and enjoy being well. Life is too short (see above re inevitable passage of time) to spend it in front of a computer looking up studies that tell you the med that has given you your life back may harm your liver. Why would you torture yourself like this. It’s OK to be well! Enjoy it :slight_smile:

Victoria, it is not unreasonable to seek out biofuels for your vehicles, generators, etc. Costs a bit more, but is at least arguably better for the environment than the use of once-upon-a-time biofuels such as petrochemicals.

Hi David,

I was being facetious with my ‘herbal petrol and homeopathic oil change’ comment. Imagine what a massive environmental contribution homeopaths could make if they turned their attention to fuel. Homeopathic petrol! The world would only need one oil well for the next thousand years! :wink:

Scott/Vic

thank u for your support. I really have to start thinking positive towards the drugs. Sometimes I I think I have OCD. I get obsessed with things too easily and then can’t let go. My wife def thinks I have an obsessive personality and I’m beginning to think she is right. Anyway I’m coming to sydney in a couple of weeks to get my mums eye cataract operation. Will b there for a few weeks. Wud love to meet the both of u. I don’t know if there r any other Sydneysiders in this forum. Do u? I will b posting my travel dates in the main forum shortly once my itinerary is confirmed.

Hi Nabeel,

Please try not to worry about what the long-term effects of these drugs will be- just enjoy the fact and be grateful that you found something that helps you!!! At this point I would honestly eat dog crap everyday if it let me walk normally again- no joke.

I have OCD and have had horrible anxiety my entire life. I have been on anti-depressants of one kind or another for about 12 years straight now. To be honest, I never think about the long-term consequences of these in terms of them actually lowering my life expectancy. I suffer so much from anxiety (and now vertigo) that quality of life far outweighs any vague concerns that my life “may” be a lot shorter. To be honest, when it comes to vertigo- I would rather live another 1 year vertigo free and then die, then live 60+ more years with constant severe unsteadiness…there is just no contest.

I know you said that Cymbalta helps your anxiety, but you could also think of adding another drug on to help, like Seroquel or Abilify- if you think you need more help. I think this has part to do with growing up the daughter of a doctor who himself is a huge med-pusher, but I am a HUGE FAN of meds that can help to improve the quality of life- we are so lucky to have them - try not to worry and DO NOT feel guilty about taking them!!!

Nabeel – have you had a serious go with CBT or meditation to try and rein in the tangents your mind is going on? It seems to me that people who ruminate over something negative is not unlike the daily “mantra” running though the mind. If you tell yourself enough times that purple elephants existed day in and day out for weeks you’d probably start seeing them – any of us would.

I think you have just developed bad thinking habits over time that you could probably make an impact on with some work of your own – i.e. no additional drugs.

So when you catch yourself thinking these negative obsessive thoughts can you not inject a reality check at that moment and run that through your head over and over again instead? That’s the way I get around negative thinking. I try to get the hard facts and reality of the situation and stick that into my mind. Example: my life will be ruined by this current dizziness. Fact: the bad patches never last forever and there is always a trigger behind it. I have always come out of a bad patch (BTW, I’m in a great patch right now … but no doubt I will be smashed again one day).

S

Scott

I did go for CBT sessions when I got hit with all this and the therapist without doubt told me I was suffering from health anxiety. I remember that even if I would get the slightest red mark on my body I would think its cancer or if I would get any sort of mild pain in my tummy I would think that there is something wrong with my kidney or liver. So after getting this migraine without headache diagnosis, I still would not accept and kept thinking its MS, tumor, stroke, Alzheimer’s etc. So Scott yes u r right that over time I have developed negative thinking patterns and the therapist has taught me techniques to overcome them. Your way of changing negative thoughts into positive thoughts is exactly what I do. For me the whole medicine taking deal was just difficult to accept because I hate taking meds but now I have no choice.

Sarah

12 years on anti depressants is a very long time. I can understand u may have anxiety now due town vertigo, but didn’t your anxiety or OCD improve on anti depressants in those 12years pre MAV to try and get off the drugs? I am on the max dose of cymbalta 120mg so dont wanna any other anti depressants esp since it is working for me

Hi Nabeel,

The anxiety was kept pretty under control via Prozac- but it was always there and threatening to “break through” (very similar to MAV). I tried to go off Prozac once in college and i was so anxious that I couldn’t sleep for an entire week (this has never happened to me before) this was during finals which wasn’t the best timing for me. I was literally losing my mind so I had to go back on it.

A few years later I started to get really out of control again, and my usual 20 mg dose of Prozac seemed to stop working. So I upped the dose to 40 mg, and then that helped again. It had “pooped out” on me, which can happen with SSRIs I guess (for mood).

Then a few years later I changed to cymbalta- this didn’t help my anxiety at all- and once again I felt like I was going completely off the rails. Right now I am on nortriptiline which is like being on nothing once again for my mood- and I am a total mess. Honestly for me, I just can’t control the anxiety without medication- i only learned how much the prozac was helping me until I went off of it. I have tried to go back on it again since mav hit and it makes my symptoms 50 times worse- it sucks because i need it more than ever now. I honestly believe this is the way that I am wired, I have been anxious since I was a baby :frowning: I totally understand CBT, have done a lot of therapy, but it just doesn’t click for me without the help of meds- it is extremely frustrating.

Sarah

I suffered from social anxiety for a few years as well without even me knowing of it until it became chronic for 3 years. Got out of that chronic phase after taking cbt and getting married to the love of my life. never took a benzo, never took an anti depressant. 4 years later along came MAV after going enormous amounts of stress at work, family issues, moving countries, impotency. went for cbt again and this time therapist said I had health anxiety issues. Still working on that as u know. Started benzoz as needed and cymbalta and today running at 80%. Have not tried any other anti depressant ever which is why u can understand why I am so scared about being on them. Never thought that I would ever have too. This shows that serotonin was my problem and I think u have the same problem but its more chronic. The good news is u have probably only tried 5% of the total anti depressent range of products available and I am confident that u will find something will work. I think u shud give the efexor a go next cz its an snri and works great for MAV for many, then celexa. Go through the list of top docs favourite meds from this website and go from there