Okay, so I’m reading this on Wikipedia, and see causes: caffeine is one.

I was thinking back to when my garbage started back in September when I was walking through Macy’s, focused on something with my eyes,
and then BAM, everything became surreal and I felt disconnected from my body. It was as if my brain was shutting down.
Then it happened when I went into a Salad place (lol) and yes, it was like was a movie camera does, panning around the subject, yet it’s not true rotational vertigo and you know it.
You just feel an altered state of consciousness and you want to get the hell out of there because you don’t know what’s happening.
I remember walking through the lobby of the Ritz Carlton thinking I was going insane, walking through the crowd, feeling like I was observing a film rather than real life.
Anyone else experience such insanity?

I notice it talks about this happening to people with drug withdrawl, but with me , it all started 3 days after I upped my dose of estrogen.
I wonder if someone could claim it about progesterone withdrawl since progesterone affects the nervous system just like Benzos do, through the GABA receptors.


This seems to be a common symptom with any vestibular disorder. I’ve had my fair share, thank you. :frowning:
The worst I’ve had was the day after taking my last benzo (I was only on it three weeks, with the last week being a taper). Damn that was weird, I felt like the whole day, every second, was a dream. I wasn’t sure whether I was even alive or not. :?

You were only on a Benzo for 3 weeks and that happened? Good grief!
Now I’m really nervous being on Benzos for several months. sheesh. I don’t think I’ll get off. :shock:


yea, heather, that’s how i was first introduced to benzos in the 70’s. I was walking through a dept store, in my 20’s, feeling exactly as described in Wiki. I was diagnosed. The attacks became more and more frequent, was diagnosed with panic and treated with Valium which cleaned them right up. Back then Valium was given out like candy.


So whatever happened to your attacks? This stuff is really bothering me.
I also read it can start with emotional trauma of some sort which was certainly true for me.
Back then was when my visual accuity was changing. Frankly I think I developed panic/anxiety attacks due to the sudden
realization that my vision had drastically changed. That attack in macy’s was when I was “focusing” on a sign on the counter,
trying to see how clearly I could see. Ya gotta love the irony. I’ll never forget that moment as long as I live. There was no delay.
It was as soon as my eyes hit the sign. Then the crap hit the fan. You’d think I was floating or something. I thought someone had
slipped me some horrific drug and my brain was just collapsing. Absolutely frightening.

I also read where these attacks are worse in flo lights. hmmm true of me. But then I frequently flip out in flo lights since I can really see . . . what I cannot see!
Get the picture?

If I had to DX myself, I have a major issue with my vision, that I need to fix before it drives me insane.
I remember reading the more visual reliant a person is, the worse the circumstances with a vestibular problem.

Christ, I need a shrink. :roll:
But then if I was okay enough to leave the house to go talk to one, I wouldn’t need one!
I think I went over the edge when the “motion” came after me sitting in chairs, standing still, and laying in bed.
I haven’t been the same since. Very traumatic for me. :cry:

If the motion is less, I am calmer. No shocker there . . .
I’m going to have to do something, because this is not something I can adjust to. I know myself too well.



You sure did hit the nail on many heads.

As far as my attacks. The Valium cleaned them right up. But I also saw something inside of myself that wanted to be seen/heard, so i started therapy. I was doing therapy and taking Valium at the same time. Eventually i figured out that didn’t make sense. I needed to stop the Valium. When I did, I had a pretty bad withdrawal with a lot of depersonalization type symptoms along with shaking, dizziness, FEAR like i’ve never known it, insomnia - but i was young and i could handle it and I knew it would pass and it did. I was fine for 35 years and then this MAV hit along with panic again. I hadn’t had any panic for 35 years until this MAV hit - side by side.

I’ll also never forget my first panic, where i was in the store, what I was looking at, feeling as if I wasn’t there anymore, but not knowing where the heck I was.

Do you ever see things melting?

“I can really see what I cannot see” do you mean you can see what you’re not supposed to be able to see?

I’ve been saying the same thing about the therapist - i need one, but I can’t get there. I can’t drive and I can’t sit. If I could get there, I wouldn’t need one :slight_smile:

Does anything calm the motion, besides drugs, like lying still? When i’ve been up for awhile and then lie still, at first I get hit with a lot of rocking but it subsides within a few minutes and i’m back to my baseline rocking.

This IS traumatic and I can’t imagine how anybody could adjust to it without treatment. I often wondered how I would ever live out my days like this, what a frightening thought.

Sorry for the disjointed post, but i was following yours,


— Begin quote from "Julie"

Do you ever see things melting?

“I can really see what I cannot see” do you mean you can see what you’re not supposed to be able to see?

— End quote

If I saw things melting, I’d be ready for a straight jacket. But that’s me. :wink:
I would not make a good candidate for wild auras. I’d flip out in hysterics, no doubt.
Needless to say, I never did LSD or heroin. :shock:

I meant that in flo lights, because there are no shadows and the perception of depth is different, that my vision is so much worse in flo lights.
So I can see what I REALLY can’t see. IOW, I see how bad my vision is! It’s one of the reasons I am very upset in flo light situations. Which is pretty much in most public settings.
I feel calmer in low light settings. And to think I once loved bright lights. Lol.

Eventually I am going to have to take another stab at seeing an optometrist, but the last time I did, just going from the distance glasses to the reading glasses (taking one pair off and putting the other pair on) as soon as I did, the ground became violent, going up and down, and I burst into tears. I never even knew this type of crap could happen to someone’s brain with glasses. It’s just pure emotional torture. When I use these reading glasses on the puter, when I get off, my vision is sooooo blurred it’s ridiculous. Somehow my eyes have lost their ability to snap back into focus when taking reading glasses off. My right eye readjusts faster than my left eye, and usually my left eye will just stay blurred for god sake. But the computer really messes up my vision. If I had a job, heck I would have had to quit because I can’t even see correctly. To try and function like this is just insane.

And when you do not have clear vision, it just makes the whole vestibular problem worse-- the ground moving, the motion in the head and bed and even standing. I’m just sick of it all. If I lay a certain way in bed, I can get the motion to stop for awhile.


I’m going to repeat again my story of my friend who had an ophthalmic migraine after starting new contacts. She quit the contacts the migraine went away. I just posted on your other thread about the heat rising. I found a link stating that that is a Sx of ophthalmic migraine.

I don’t think an optometrist or ophthalmologist would have a clue how to give you a correct prescription for this.

I understand now what you mean about the flo lights.

And after i wrote you that last post I was reminded about the moment I had my big crash. It was a MOMENT. I was looking at my husband’s daughter, we were in a restaurant. And then it was like the two of us left into a dream state. The next thing I knew it felt like somebody hit me over the head with a sledgehammer (not pain - dizziness). I’ve been dizzy ever since. I’ll never forget that moment. And it all happened so fast.

Scary how a moment in time can change everything. A single moment.
Then when I started using the phrase “my brain was shutting down” some docs looked at me like I was nuts.
When I came here, an ENT was listening to me tell my story, but she didn’t say hey, I think you had X happening.
Guess how I had to find out? Her nurse handed me an RX for Klonopin. I said WTH is this for? She said, panic attacks.
Well, I got very defensive about it. Said I never had a panic attack in my life. yadda yadda.
Now here I am, filled with anxiety so bad my whole body trembles and my hands shake like some crackhead. Lol.
I guess it was all starting all the way back in September and I didn’t know what was happening to me back then.
Perhaps she did. Odd for an ENT to pick up on that. Maybe cause she was a woman.
I told a male ENT about “altered states of consciousness”. He suggested Menieres, and she chose panic attacks!
What a difference in ENTS eh?

I just can’t believe how much life can change on a dime . . .


I keep going back to this page,
Haven’t visited it in a while, it’s huge.
Slowly but surely I’m remembering things from years ago, I never put down to migraine due to NO headache.
Obviously I’ve had silent migraine my whole life.
Most people who suffer vertiginous stuff will have these issues de-realization type feelings, seems to come with the territory, fun hey?
Also some people with anxiety can suffer it as well.

I’m not sure if you’ve seen this web page or not it’s interesting and might help sought out some questions you have. :smiley: … ex_en.html

Heather and Jenny, funny that you should post back to back - panic and migraine because that leads me to repeat myself something that panic authorities say:

panic and migraine are first cousins

I think they are more closely related than that

I think Baloh is big on that, eh?
However, does everyone with panic have migraine, and everyone with migraine have panic?
Say that real fast 3 times. :wink:


— Begin quote from "Heather"

I think Baloh is big on that, eh?
However, does everyone with panic have migraine, and everyone with migraine have panic?
Say that real fast 3 times. :wink:


— End quote

Heather, you can’t be in such a foul mood today :slight_smile: that was pretty darn funny

anyway, my sister puts me to shame with her panic attacks. She belongs to a group who brings in speakers. In layman’s terms, one of the speakers explained that “they” (whoever “they” are, as always) believe that the process is initially the same - an over-excitable brain. My sister is a metallurgical engineer who gets lost in medical termination so she wasn’t able to give me much more than that, except to say that from that starting point, some people’s brains would go on to panic and some would go on to migraine. Well, I thought, how about both? I did both in pretty much the same space and time.

There have been some threads on this forum about how many of us were/are panickers, before MAV or after MAV. If only my memory would serve me, it does seem like there are quite a few panickers on this forum.

My entire family - 10 sibs and tons of nieces and nephews - is filled with panickers and migrainers - and now that I have my MAV diagnosis, they are starting to come out about that little symptom.

As an aside, the group my sister belongs to has a member who is a cop. when she goes into a panic she knocks people out - literally! Anybody out there living in Chicago, next time you get stopped by a woman cop and you start to see her hyperventilating - watch out!


P.S. I didn’t know Baloh was big on that - thanks

panic migriane comorbid.

  1. jen

excuse me I’m off to have a panic attack!!!

ya Jules, but how many developed panic when they hit perimenopause? (as well as migrainous activity) both are associated with hormone imbalance.
I have no history of panic, anxiety, depression, migraine, nothing. Until … damn hormones!!! :twisted:
I mean seriously, my nickname was funster! :mrgreen:
How the hell do I go from funster to whacko? LOLOLOLOL




I can give you a ton of anecdote and a ton of google scholar links linking perimenopause with new onset panic/depression.

I remember when my mom had a surgical menopause - she was out of her mind with new panic and, after resisting estrogen, ended up insisting on it. i’ve heard that story many times over. I remember a few (?) years ago when the study came out linking HRT with breast cancer and doctors were taking estrogen away from women. Women I knew were screaming at their docs - “give me my estrogen or I’ll find somebody who will!” They needed it, or they would panic. I kid you not.

I wish Kira were here, I know she’s busy with her daughter’s wedding, but she could give us some real medically-based information on this. I’ll PM her.

MAV and perimenopause, i’ll have to Google that one in the morning because Mr. Ambien is waiting for me :slight_smile:

Nighty all,


Hi Heather,
Were you diagnosed with Mav?
Sorry my memory is so poor.
Menopause and peri M, can cause all types of ugly symptoms,
My mummy dearest definitely lost the plot and hasn’t recovered, since going off HRT due to the big C. She always suffered anxiety though.

During her peri meno, my mother went on to HRT and was rejuvenated into her youthful sexually responsive self, without the disgusting mood swings.
So I was until NOW expecting menopause to be just another hurdle.

After the big C talks on HRT, I read a few articles and found what type they were talking about is a very rare and hard to detect.
So most women didn’t normally get this type anyway.

As Migraine patients are warned NOT to take HRT. Right?
Migraine can sometimes in some patients resolve due to menopause.
I did have every intention of taking HRT, and still want to, but due to migraine don’t know if I can.
Maybe someone else knows something about the subject.

I do know Menopause can cause dizziness and vertigo in some women as well.


— Begin quote from "Heather"

ya Jules, but how many developed panic when they hit perimenopause? (as well as migrainous activity) both are associated with hormone imbalance.

— End quote

Now that it’s morning and I’m awake, i’m reading this post again. Didn’t you answer your own question Heather or am I really Dopamaxed?

“Both are associated with hormone imbalance.”

Google scholar has a ton of hits regarding migraine being worse during perimenopause.

— Begin quote from "jennyd"

Hi Heather,
Were you diagnosed with Mav?

— End quote

I haven’t been DX’d with anything. Too terrified a doc is going to eff me up worse than I already am in order to get a DX!!
No one is going to Rotary chair or ENG my ass, unless I get a lobotomy.


— Begin quote from "jennyd"

As Migraine patients are warned NOT to take HRT. Right?

— End quote

Yes, you are correct. I was told to never take HRT when the time comes by my neurologist because of the increased risk of stroke. Migraine patients already are at an increased risk and HRT further increases the risk.