Verapamil Update

Medication 💊 Calcium Channel Blockers
1

Hi Everyone,

Well i have been on Verapamil nearly 2 months and i will say that the rocking sensation and tightness/tenseness inside my head is somewhat less. I was hoping i could say that there have been Significant improvements…but that would not be accurate. But i am willing to give the medication another month which will take me to 3 months when finished and go from there. As you know i take one tab of Xanex per day…and there have been a small handful of days where i have gotten by with only 2/3 to 3/4 tab of xanex. If i don’t take any of the Xanex (anti-anxiety) medication the motion worsens.

I went to a concert over the weekend (huge auditorium)…thousands of seats. Luckily the motion was not bad but just don’t feel comfortable in a setting of 25,000 or so people (sold out concert) with the music relatively loud. It’s too much STIMULA for me. I think if i go to another concert it will be fairly small and intimate setting. I don’t care for crowds…period!

So that is the latest regarding Verapamil.

Joe

2

Joe,

Your post reminds me that I need to be patient. I hear from so many people that they felt improvement within a few days that I expect the same, when the literature states to give it time.

Good luck with continued improvement on verapamil - even a baby step out of this hell feels great to me.

Julie

3

Joe,

I would say that the fact you have noticed an improvement is a good sign that you are on the right track. You just might need to try some other meds before you find one that works for you. I’m not familar with Verapamil and what family of meds it is in. Everything that I tried was in the anti-seizure family, and I don’t think that Verapamil is in that family of meds.

Regardless, it is good to hear that you have had an improvement even if it is slight.

I don’t do crowds anymore. Drives my wife nuts. Like you said, it’s just a system overload trying to deal with everything around me, even on a good day.

Brian

4

Hi Julie & Brian,

Thanks for responding. Basically it is a slight improvement with Verapamil. But so far using only Verapamil is not enough to shake off all the motion.

Today before i left for work i took my regular dose of Verapamil and about 2/3 tab of Xanex. By the time i got to work…things became very Stressy and i had to take a bit more xanex. Then when work ended today…had to visit the Admin bldg for a Lecture related to work. The room is a good size but not huge. There were about 100 people that showed up and the guy giving the lecture was very funny but he wanted feedback from the audience. I only listened…i began to feel the motion in my head. Here again…too much Stimula. Think of it this way…my head is a Fish Bowl and if you slightly Tap the fish bowl the water gets kind of Wavy…and goes every which way. When too much stimula messes with me that is how my head feels. It is like i can go into high anxiety…or even a panic. I am glad the man giving the lecture did not ask me to answer any questions…my mind would have probably gone blank.

Dr. Baloh from UCLA who diagnosed me with “Migraine Equivalent” in 2006 said to me…that my first diagnosis back in 1992 called “Panic Disorder”…was not to far from a Migraine. Dr. Baloh said that Panic Disorder and Migraine are Cousins of one another…whether they are distant cousins or close cousins i don’t know. Anotherwards…there are similarities between the two. Just thought i would share that little bit with you.

Does any one experience increased motion in certain situations? If yes…what types of situations and what do you feel?

Joe

5

Joe,

There are three environments that bother me. Crowds, big open spaces, and building with poor acoustics causing lots of sound bounce.

Brian

6

Hi Joe
In response to your question about whether anyone feels increased motion in certain situations…absolutely…yes! It will be 2 years 26 March coming up that I suffered my ‘Big Crash’ and I haven’t as yet been able to get back to work. Having said that, the progress has been slow, but there has definitely been progress. I’ve been on Sandomigran (which I believe is an antihistamine) since visiting my neuro for approx 20 months now. I visited my neuro just last week and said I’ve reached the 60% improvement mark but can’t seem to get past it. He said it’s time to try other meds and has put me on a Beta-blocker called Metoprolol 50mg which I’m slowly increasing over the next 4 weeks to one tablet, twice daily. Can’t give much feedback about that one yet but like all of us forum participants, am hoping for big things.

Anyway, the main point is…when I visited my neuro last week, I said to him that my prevailing symptom now, was motion sickness. I get it after going driving, I floated on an airbed in our swimming pool and had motion sickness, and just in general I can get it from too much movement. I told the neuro I’m still living in a fish bowl watching the world pass me by because of the restrictions that motion sickness gives me. I’ve explained it to him like my brain is like a computer and can only copy with so much ‘processing’ and then after that, the feeling of motion sickness is what I’m left with. Too much conversation, too much concentration on any task, too much action in shopping malls, as you said too much stimuli which I equate to too much ‘processing’. I used to get nausea with all this, but it appears to have lifted over the past three months so I’m that much happier.

As I’m moving down the track of finding the most appropriate medication, I’ve still got in the back of my mind, the possibility of combining my meds that are most suited to me, with an anti-anxiety tab because as soon as I remove myself from places/people that cause too much ‘processing’, the motion sickness goes away. I’m positive that that will be included in my final meds combination, and I’m also sure that it will be a combination of meds, not just one, even if all low doses, that will get the condition under control.

Another interesting point raised at my neuro’s visit, was my need to have to get on a plane in October for my niece’s wedding (I’ve avoided a few opportunities so far!) and said that I’d heard that Valium might help and If I ‘bombed’ myself out for the trip, what did he think would be the effects, would it set me back as I’m not keen to go there again! He recommended that course of action and said that I could possibly feel a bit worse after the trip, but not for long and that he definitely did not feel that it would bring on another episode. Tickets are booked, I just need the willpower to do it!

Haven’t posted in a little while, but have been watching everyone’s progress, hi to Brian and Julie too!
:lol:
cheers
Judy

7

Brian,

Verapamil is a Beta-Blocker generally used for Hypertension. If Verapamil does not work then i might ask about Neurontin which is a anti-seizure medication. Have you heard any good news on this med?

Joe

8

Hi Judy,

Good to hear from you. Why did your doc decide to put you on a antihistimine? The beta-blocker you are talking about…is that also generally used for hyper-tension? You mentioned Motion Sickness…did this symptom begin after you came down with this dizzy condition or have you had Motion Sickness all your life? I have never outgrown Motion Sickness…i suffered from it as a child when driving with my parents in curvey mountains near Yosemitie. Also, on fishing boats i can become very sick or Amusement park rides that go in circles. I have never outgrown this. As far as just general driving…i have no problems. But i really dislike Curvey Mountain Narrow Roads…

I feel similar…too much conversation especially if i am talkin to more than one person and i have to move my head to the right and then to the left to communicate with them. Too much concentration and crowded shopping malls. I cannot do the kind of work i use to do when i worked for the phone company. I pushed paper all day long…reports, processing checks…lots of computer work. Those days are history.

Of all the medications that i have tried in nearly 16 years of this condition…anti-anxiety medication has been my saving grace. Without it…i would not be able to work a part-time job or even go out of the house. There would be too much motion. The anti-anxiety med helps me to feel more stationary and also hold a conversation and enjoy a movie, etc.

Sometimes i wonder if this nighmare was brought on from stress…directly or in-directly??

Joe

9

Brian…interesting you said Wide OPen Spaces bother you…i am complet opposite. I feel extremely calm and safe in wide open spaces. What i dislike are Narrow curvey roads in the Sierra Nevada Mountains or Yosimitie. I like mountains from a distance but dread driving thru them.

Joe

10

Hi Joe

I’m very new to the ‘meds’ discussion and am not totally sure why I am prescribed medication and what specific area they target, so this forum is giving me a better knowledge. My reply might not be all that informed but I can only tell you what I’ve been told by my neuro. Sometimes I think neuro’s feel too much information in the wrong hands is a danger!! Sometimes I feel it is actually too overwhelming trying to understand anyway. In answer to the why antihistamine…my neuro said that the sandomigran was specifically to target migraine only, I can only assume that the other meds treat a range of other symptoms. I did read that my new medication, the beta-blocker has an effect on the ‘dizzy/motion’ aspects of the condition, is that what you make of them?? Anyway have only been taking this med for a week and they say 4 weeks before any clear idea (cross-fingers and hope).

In answer to your question about history of motion sickness, I never really thought I suffered at all from it. Interesting though that I would never go on rides in the amusement park or ever go and sit in a boat fishing with the rocking motion (makes me crook thinking about it!). Driving was never a real issue, but am having real problems with all of them since my big crash.

My symptoms are now at their most severe when I have any feelings of anticipation, anxiety, tension. I was not the slightest bit anxious in my past life, very happy and very positive, so don’t run with the idea that it is an emotional state. I do believe that it is a chemical imbalance triggered by the migraine/vertigo condition and that anxiety and emotional moods now do play a role in exacerbating the dizziness and motion sickness and all the other symptoms. I feel that I am definitely going to explore the anti-anxiety meds down the track as I’m sure this will ease the symptoms. Interesting, my mum developed migraine with aura (I don’t think she got the headache with it) at the same age as myself (I’m now 48) but mine manifested in the migraine/vertigo fashion. The other thing too Joe, I have never popped a pill in my life but am ready and willing to pop whatever is necessary to get the condition under enough control to get out there and enjoy what I’ve got.

Great to hear from you

cheers
Judy

11

A few nitpick corrections (hope you find them helpful rather than take offense, because that is certainly not my intention!)

Pizotifen (aka Sandomigran) is primarily a serotonin antagonist: “Pizotifen is a serotonin antagonist acting mainly at the 5-HT1, 5-HT2A and 5HT2C receptors. It also has some activity as an antihistamine.”
Thus it’s not just another antihistamine. :slight_smile:

Also, Verapamil is a calcium channel blocker, not a beta blocker. :slight_smile:

12

Tranquility,

I have no problems with you correcting me if i am not quite right on something. This is the way we help and learn from one another. I was not aware that Verapamil is a calcium channel blocker rather than a beta blocker. What is the difference? One of the doctors who saw me at UCLA suggested to my doctor at the Veterans Hospital for me to try this. If Verapamil does not give me much more help i am not sure where to turn from here. Will have to discuss this with the doctor.

Joe

13

Gidday Tranquility and Joe
thanks so much for the info, I don’t mind at all being educated on the meds I’m taking, in fact every bit helps. I might have misinformed you about the latest med I am on. It is Metoprolol 50mg, initially starting on 1/2 tab(am) for a f/night, then increasing to 1 tab(am) for a f/night, then 1 tab am and pm. At which time, I’ll know if they are making a difference. I think the neuro told me that these particular tabs are beta-blockers (I don’t really understand what, in laymans terms, they really do so any help appreciated). If these tabs are not for me, he was very willing to look at the Verapamil angle and has a prescription written and ready if need be. At the moment I’m taking Sandomigran, 7 tabs daily and Rivotril (Clonazapam) 1 tab per day (I think from the anti-seisure group) and now taking the Metoprolol. If the latest med works, I’ll slowly come off the Sandomigran and go from there.

I have to say that the Sandomigran has greatly reduced my migraine symptoms but I still suffer from quite a few symptoms and only feel around 60% at best, so the aim is to get a better result than that. Their main side effect is that it increases your appetite, I’ve gained 9 kilos and can’t go any further (I was once quite slim!) so have to try something else.

As I said to Joe, once I’ve got the ‘main part’ of my meds sorted, I’m going to look at the anti-anxiety angle too as I am convinced that’s going to be part of my formula for success! :stuck_out_tongue:

Kind regards
Judy

14

Judy…as far as anti-anxiety medication goes i know that Xanex, Valium, Ativan and Klonopin are available…probably there are new ones out there. But for some reason after trying numerous anti-depressants …the anti-anxiety med has worked the best…but i don’t know why?? I would like to switch to Klonopin because i understand it lasts longer in your system…but since i do so well with Xanex…i am afraid if i switch and for some reason the Klonopin does not work that well…and then going back to Xanex…maybe it won’t be as helpful. Guess i’m a little paranoid…

Judy…did you know that a significant percentage of folks diagnosed with MAV or Migraine Equivalent are people who have never out grown Motion Sickness. That is me to a tea!

Joe

15

— Begin quote from “joseph0952”

Judy…as far as anti-anxiety medication goes i know that Xanex, Valium, Ativan and Klonopin are available…probably there are new ones out there. But for some reason after trying numerous anti-depressants …the anti-anxiety med has worked the best…but i don’t know why?? I would like to switch to Klonopin because i understand it lasts longer in your system…but since i do so well with Xanex…i am afraid if i switch and for some reason the Klonopin does not work that well…and then going back to Xanex…maybe it won’t be as helpful. Guess i’m a little paranoid…

Judy…did you know that a significant percentage of folks diagnosed with MAV or Migraine Equivalent are people who have never out grown Motion Sickness. That is me to a tea!

Joe

— End quote

I don’t know much about xanax (took it only for a few days in 2005, and then discarded) or klonopin, but valium has been effective for me, mostly as a way to combat constant disequilibrium. As it applies to Meniere’s, it’s basically used to sedate the vestibular system. Although my diagnosis is primarily MAV (Meniere’s is a secondary diagnosis), and verapamil has been effective for me, I still use valium consistently. I really don’t like using it because I don’t like medication per se, and it can be addictive, but since 2005, it’s played a significant role in dealing with this ailment. I just make sure I’m careful with the dosage. When the weather gets warmer, I gradually reduce the dosage down to almost nothing (5mg per week). Weather is a major trigger for me.

I’ve never had a problem with motion sickness. I was also asked by Dr Hain’s office if I have trouble in crowded places, and I don’t. I think my ailment is directly related to a virus I caught a little over 3 years ago, and perhaps exacerbated by a blow to the head when I fainted after being prescribed a pain medication. Took a heckuva head shot there, and couldn’t walk without assistance for several days thereafter.

16

MSDXD,

Well as you know Xanex, Valim, Ativan and Klonopin are in the same family and are anti-anxiety medications. What works for you may not work for me. You mentioned that Valium works well for you…and Xanex helps me alot. Some of these medications can be addictive but i rather have some quality of life rather than none and be homebound. Think of it…the poor souls who had what we have back in 1895 probably had no medication at all and had to suffer through it day be day. So i count my lucky stars that there are medications like Valium or Xanex.

MSDXD…you shared that you never suffered from motion sickness. Well consider yourself lucky! When i was a young boy…our family would drive to June Lake, California for our family vacation which is on the borderline of California and Nevada and every year for about 6 years in a row…the closer we got to June Lake the more curvey the two lane roads became. My father would have to stop to the side of the road so i could vomit. It was a real Nightmare! Even Dramamine did not help. Going Fishing with my dad on a boat…i would get very ill…especialy once when we went Deep Sea Fishing. I thought i was not coming home alive…i threw up so much! Carnival rides…forget it…anything going in circles i would become horribly sick. Currently…if i do drive in the mountains (which i rarely do)…i make sure i am the driver. There is no way i would sit in the back seat and let someone else drive.

Joe

17

— Begin quote from “joseph0952”

MSDXD,

Well as you know Xanex, Valim, Ativan and Klonopin are in the same family and are anti-anxiety medications. What works for you may not work for me. You mentioned that Valium works well for you…and Xanex helps me alot. Some of these medications can be addictive but i rather have some quality of life rather than none and be homebound. Think of it…the poor souls who had what we have back in 1895 probably had no medication at all and had to suffer through it day be day. So i count my lucky stars that there are medications like Valium or Xanex.

MSDXD…you shared that you never suffered from motion sickness. Well consider yourself lucky! When i was a young boy…our family would drive to June Lake, California for our family vacation which is on the borderline of California and Nevada and every year for about 6 years in a row…the closer we got to June Lake the more curvey the two lane roads became. My father would have to stop to the side of the road so i could vomit. It was a real Nightmare! Even Dramamine did not help. Going Fishing with my dad on a boat…i would get very ill…especialy once when we went Deep Sea Fishing. I thought i was not coming home alive…i threw up so much! Carnival rides…forget it…anything going in circles i would become horribly sick. Currently…if i do drive in the mountains (which i rarely do)…i make sure i am the driver. There is no way i would sit in the back seat and let someone else drive.

Joe

— End quote

With Xanax, give me/us a rundown on how it helps. With Valium, it helps my equilibrium. That’s the only thing it helps. Nothing else.

I’ve heard that motion sickness is pretty common among MAV sufferers.

We’re all the same, and different.

18

Klonopin helps the dizziness quite a bit.

19

Msdxd,

Xanex helps me to keep more stationary, + articulate my thoughts when having conversation, think more clearly, socialize + be able to maintain a part-time job, and feel less anxious. Without it i feel like i am on a boat and the motion overwhelms me. Most of the Motion is felt inside my head…which is probably the Throbbing feeling coming from the Silent Migraine. I equate Motion with Throbbing…it’s like they work together. A number of years back the Xanex also helped with Vertigo. But the last 2-3 years i rarely get vertigo…maybe a very small spin and then it’s over. But if i were not taking Xanex on a daily basis i would be willing to bet that the Vertigo would return. At the worst of this condition, without Xanex it can feel like i am deep sea fishing. It is absolutely horrible! I totally shut down…

Small update on Verapamil…seems like i am thinking less about the Motion on a daily basis…so i believe that is a good sign that it’s helping…even if it’s in a small way.

Joe

20

Hi Everyone,

Just want to let you know that i am presesntly on my 3rd month of Verapamil and have made some small improvements
so i have decided to continue this medication indefinitely. I don’t focus on the Motion nearly as much and i am now able to take less than one tab of Xanex per day (2/3 to 3/4 tab) compared to before taking Verapamil. Previously i was taking one tab per day.sometimes a bit more… so these are small improvements. No cure yet…but i will take whatever help i can get.

Joe