Great article on MSG and its effects

http://cancerdefeated.com/blog/2011/10/02/this-food-additive-is-like-fertilizer-for-cancer/

Sorry, Silverpen, but while the site may have some accurate information, it activated my horseshit detector.

Have to agree with David on this. There’s a lot of unsubstantiated fear-mongering going on in that article, especially about it being a “cancer fertilizer.” There’s no evidence for that. What is a fertilizer for cancer is something like estrogen or progesterone in an estrogen/progesterone positive breast cancer. But MSG? MSG is simply an abundant and naturally occurring non-essential amino acid.

But as migraineurs, most of us should probably avoid this stuff as it appears to be a universal trigger. I know it causes me to come crashing down in flames.

Cheers … S 8)

Beside the second section that brings up a cancer connection I think the article as a whole is very good.
In no way was I trying to push any relation between MSG and cancer. I realize the title is a bit on the sensational side.
I get asked everyday about MSG and its effect on migraine. This article was just jammed pack with some real good information that I haven’t found anywhere else.
Most people think avoiding Chinese food is how to hide from MSG. While most MAV sufferers know that’s not the case, the list of Code Names and sources of MSG is pretty mind blowing. I am not necessarily on board with MSG being the boogie man everyone says it is. Especially if 90% of the world food stuffs contain it in one form or another. If you have other info about MSG and how they hide it please post. I am trying to find as much info as possible. I have a friend who is an Oncologist as well as a group of folks that are trying to wean themselves from high MSG foods.
Telling people to avoid it is not a bad thing, but we need to know what “it” is.

Hi Silverpen,

The general diet advice in the article is actually pretty good for migraineurs - eating fresh food, avoiding heavily ‘flavour enhanced’ take away style foods and so on. The references to known quack Russell Blaylock however, are to be viewed with extreme caution.

http://www.skepdic.com/blaylock.html

Thus the title, “Great article on MSG and its effects”. Not “what causes cancer” If you look deep enough you can find horse shit in just about anything. To post something like that, when someone is just trying to pass along some info, sets off my “Civility Meter”
We get bombarded with more useless information, people trying to advertise and general bunk about alternative cures every hour. Letting a conversation erupt, without being pompous or condescending is a skill that really helps everyone involved. Especially with scared people looking for a little shred of hope dealing with this awful disease.

— Begin quote from "Silverpen27"

Thus the title, “Great article on MSG and its effects”. Not “what causes cancer” If you look deep enough you can find horse shit in just about anything. To post something like that, when someone is just trying to pass along some info, sets off my “Civility Meter”
We get bombarded with more useless information, people trying to advertise and general bunk about alternative cures every hour. Letting a conversation erupt, without being pompous or condescending is a skill that really helps everyone involved. Especially with scared people looking for a little shred of hope dealing with this awful disease.

— End quote

Hi again Silverpen,

No-one’s having a go at you, in fact all of us who have posted have agreed that the advice on diet, for migraineurs, is pretty sound. But this article is from a Cancer blog and the title is ‘Food additive fertilizes cancer’. It’s not specifically about migraine. It also references a well known quack (Blaylock). You posted it as is - not specifying which parts you thought were relevant, or not. It’s not pompous or condescending or lacking in civility to raise a flag of caution in relation to the claims the article makes about cancer. It’s true - we all get scared dealing with MAV, that’s why we need to be careful and discerning about what we read.

Vic

I guess I am not used to someone responding to a post with “horse shit”… It’s just as easy to say this guy that is referenced in the article has credibility issues or ignore what the neurosurgeon says because he has a lot of whacky theories. I liked the MSG info and could have cut and pasted out the part with cancer, but always post entire articles as a general rule. How about something like, "that was good info on MSG…I’m not to sure about that doctor that doesn’t believe in vaccinations and fluoride? I didn’t like the snarky tone of David’s response and thought it necessary to reply.
I thought Scott’s response was totally reasonable and I appreciated it.

I thought Scott’s response was totally reasonable and I appreciated it.

— Begin quote from "Silverpen27"

I guess I am not used to someone responding to a post with “horse shit”… It’s just as easy to say this guy that is referenced in the article has credibility issues or ignore what the neurosurgeon says because he has a lot of whacky theories. I liked the MSG info and could have cut and pasted out the part with cancer, but always post entire articles as a general rule. How about something like, "that was good info on MSG…I’m not to sure about that doctor that doesn’t believe in vaccinations and fluoride? I didn’t like the snarky tone of David’s response and thought it necessary to reply.

— End quote

Hi again,

The happy news I think is that this is just a communication issue - perfectly understandable when just reading the written word - hard to get tone, jokes etc. Also, you’re fairly new here (welcome! :smiley: ) and as you get to know us you’ll see that we can be a fairly blunt crew but it’s all in good humour. David is a groover, I can guarantee he meant no offense to you.

Thanks for your input Silverpen and see you round the board!

Let me put it this way, Silverpen: when I find implausible statements on a site, I shun it and warn others against it. Cancer? nah. Processed foods generally? Hmm, more or less. MSG is often not listed explicitly? Sure. Specific products contain it? I want the source of the claim. For example, I think Breyers is one of the companies that I queried and that blew me off. I found this suggestive but not conclusive. If some chemist analyzed their products and found MSG, I’d sure like to know that. Otherwise, I am going to take all statements as suspect. It’s rather like the example in the skeptical link a few messages back: if someone states that dental amalgam contains mercury, I know they’re correct; if they go on to state that it must be poisoning us and making kids autistic, and needs to be drilled out, I’ll lose my interest in what they have to say.

My only issue here is that I come from the world of Facebook and while most of the interactions are brief and lacking any factual backup the effort we put in to share with each other is often cathartic. Having a bad day? Post a comment that cheers someone up. Saying something harsh can really upset someone. On my bad days I like assure those on FB that hope exist in some form or another. I am the world biggest smart ass and being constantly dizzy for 6 months hasn’t helped much.
While I may not have vetted the blogged article that well, I got excited and wanted others to see the info on MSG. I spent a few weeks with a doctor that swears by the migraine diet because it decreases our intake of MSG. I am extremely skeptical and so is my personal MAV doc about MSG and its effect on migraine.However, to many people are saying that they are benefiting from eliminating it from there diet. I think it’s all about baselines and if you are above your baseline MSG is a killer. If you are below your baseline you won’t even notice. Is it poison? Maybe that’s an over statement, but I never ask for extra MSG when I order Chinese food.
I am not holding out for miracles, just plowing ahead in my constant efforts to improve how I feel.

Hi Silverpen,

The thing about mvertigo is that we’re all a skeptical bunch (not to be confused with cynical) and most here have been down so many tracks with misinformation and unsubstantiated information (often pure quackery nonsense) that we all promote and hold the view highly that there should be some good critical analysis or at least solid plausibility to anything that falls on the radar here. David’s comment is not to be taken personally or as being condescending at all. One of the things written in the “mvertigo constitution” is the following:

“Note that while there is absolutely no problem with discussing “alternative” therapies at mvertigo, be prepared for the treatment to be examined critically if there is no evidence to support it.”

I need to update this and make it applicable to all forms of information. I like to think this forum differs from most others for this very reason. You know you can come here and know that we’ve sifted through the junk and woo therapies or information out there that doesn’t cut it.

Now having said all this, I would encourage you or anyone to post whatever it is you think is important to read but not be offended in any way if the article itself or the information within is scrutinised. It’s no reflection on you personally. If I post something and there’s information in the article that is junk or raises an eyebrow, I really want to know that. As Vic pointed out there is good information in the MSG article but other info to be wary about and to take with a grain of salt (which you obviously realise). The great thing is that the more you dig around with a critical eye, the more easily you (and all of us) can spot red flags in proposed therapies and/ or information.

Happy to hear your thoughts on this. Perhaps the response here came as a surprise as you are new here and it might have sounded like criticism towards you. Not so. Once you get to know people here, you’ll see that’s not the case.

Cheers … Scott :smiley:

Also, Scott"s the best!!! :mrgreen:

Pam

Another article on MSG:

http://www.msgmyth.com/

This is a good example of nonsense information. They say the following:

— Begin quote from ____

“But since MSG is often a component of a formulation, it is not labeled as such. You’ve seen words like autolyzed yeast, hydrolyzed protein, and whey protein. Each of these substances contain a percentage of glutamate, the harmful component of MSG.”

— End quote

This “harmful” substance called glutamate is actually a carboxylate anion of glutamic acid, one of the 20 essential amino acids that are required to build proteins.

— Begin quote from ____

“glutamate is an important neurotransmitter that plays a key role in long-term potentiation and is important for learning and memory”

— End quote

Scott 8)

This today in the Sydney Morning Herald about MSG.

[size=150]The truth about MSG[/size]

— Begin quote from ____

And glutamate occurs naturally everywhere in our diets. Ripe tomatoes are full of it, as are dried mushrooms and broccoli. Parmesan cheese, in particular, is loaded with the stuff, which is why it is such a popular addition to meaty sauces like ragu bolognese. It even occurs in human breast milk.

Food Standards Australia New Zealand has reviewed all the evidence and come to the same conclusion. ‘‘The overwhelming evidence from a large number of scientific studies is that MSG is safe for the general population in the levels typically found in food,’’ a spokeswoman for FSANZ, Lorraine Belanger, says. ‘‘A small number of people may experience a reaction … but there’s no convincing evidence that MSG is responsible for more serious effects like those you might see in an allergic response to things like peanuts.’’

— End quote

The stuff you read about MSG being some sort of poison causing cancer and all the woes of man is simply bullshit and nonsense. It falls into the same camp as the fear mongering you can easily find about aspartame as well.