Less Sleep Leaves Me Feeling Better. WTH?

Specific Illnesses & Conditions VM/MAV
1

I’m thoroughly confused. Throughout the last (nearly) four months, I’ve struggled to find a single trigger, but not one single thing makes me worse or better…with the exception of one factor: sleep. But it’s not what you might think.

I’ve experienced three nights throughout the last 15 weeks in which I’ve not really slept at all, and for some peculiar reason, I feel a lot better the next day. Don’t get me wrong—I don’t feel completely better. I still have vertigo, and I’m tired as hell, but the vertigo definitely decreases when I have almost no sleep. Then, when I sleep more (but not too much; I never over sleep) I feel horrible.

This makes zero sense to me, and if anything, it has left me feeling more desperate. At least if I felt better with more sleep, I’d know where to focus. But I can’t just not sleep.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Coffee doesn’t worsen my symptoms, PMS doesn’t worsen them, chocolate doesn’t worsen them…nothing has any affect, aside form not sleeping.

2

Hi

I’ve had the same thing.

I feel I need 9 hours sleep a night and still wake up unrefreshed. But actually, there have been times when I’ve had 6 hours sleep and felt marginally better. I think there’s perhaps a fine line between not enough and too much sleep and it changes based on what other stuff has been going on in our bodies- hormones, stress, food, exercise.

It’s odd.

3

TOTALLY. This has been the ONLY constant for me through decades of dizziness. Mild sleep deprivation makes me feel much better in the head.

Why don’t researchers try to figure out WHY this is? I’ve seen many people on this forum mention it.

Whenever I mentioned it to my dizziness specialists (neurotologist and otoneurologist), they were puzzled.

Maybe if doctors/researchers could figure out why this is, they could offer better treatments to their patients.

Meanwhile, I think many of us can do ourselves a big favor by trying to find our personal balance of ideal amount of sleep. Go over it, you’re in a fog the next day. Get too little sleep, your body doesn’t function so well in other ways.

Nancy

4

The oddest part about it is that when I say a little sleep, I mean almost none. On the nights that I toss and turn all night, and get maybe an hour or two of sleep, that’s when the vertigo decreases a bit the following day. And it’s not like I feel better all around. I feel tired and drugged and sluggish, because I’ve not slept, which makes sense. But why the vertigo dies down a little, who the hell knows.

I’ve never over slept. I wish I could, but that’s never happened. I usually get around 5-6 hours of broken sleep a night, and that’s when I feel at my baseline…which is hell. Maybe on the nights I sleep so little, when I do nod off for an hour or two, I’m going in really deep, because I’m exhausted, and am therefore getting better sleep within those one of two hours than I do when I sleep all night…though broken. Maybe? I guess that’s one theory.

5

Guinevere–that’s interesting. The one thing the otoneurologist did speculate about when I told him about my “better with less sleep” deal is that perhaps, if I had sleep apnea (which was never tested, and I don’t think I do), I wasn’t getting enough oxygen during the hours I was sleeping, so the fewer of those hours, the better. But I think that was just a wild speculation on his part. He didn’t know.

When I am VERY sleep-deprived, yes, my head feels clearer, but my balance is worse. And although my head feels clear and not foggy, I know I’m still cognitively impaired in some ways by the sleep deprivation. (Of course, when I’ve had lots of sleep, I’m cognitively impaired by the FOG itself!)

It’s interesting that you feel much better when you don’t sleep at all. I recently posted (on another thread) about once when I was very seriously sleep-deprived while finishing up an overdue freelance project. I had probably only gotten 4-5 hours per night for several nights in a row, then the last night I only got about an hour (and you know that wasn’t GOOD sleep, mostly just resting my eyes and in a dozy-dreamy state). I finished up the manuscript the next day, rushed off to UPS before the 4:30 deadline (amazing I didn’t have a traffic accident driving there), came home and went to fix dinner. In the kitchen (when I could now pay attention to my head instead of the project), I discovered that I could whirl around from cupboard to stove to fridge, etc., actually turn around quickly and repeatedly, without feeling one iota of dizziness!! I could NOT believe it and literally laughed out loud, because this was the first time in probably 20 years that I hadn’t felt dizzy with that kind of movement! Such a strange experience.

Still, I don’t endorse bad sleep deprivation as a way of life. It does bad things to you generally, as you know. Best to try to find the number of hours that works best for you, stick to a certain bedtime and getting-up time, and if you are having trouble sleeping most nights, talk to your doctor. Maybe you can find a med that will help.

Best of luck,

Nancy

6

Interesting, I do know there is a fine line between sleeping enough and over sleeping. Although, strange you feel better with basically no sleep. I always wonder is it something to do with the brain being more alert, so when it is, it can make you feel like crap :slight_smile: I also haven’t found any triggers (I don’t take caffeine, chocolate etc but I’ve never found they trigger migraines, I’ve just stayed off them because I feel I should).

The only time I feel better is when I drink alcohol, which again numbs the mind. I feel way worse the next day though. But actually having a few glasses of wine seems to make me feel better. I don’t drink alcohol anymore. I also don’t mention this to doctors etc as they will latch onto anxiety, which I am not.

7

Yes, it’s all very peculiar. I’m in the same boat regarding the fog, too. If I sleep too much, (which for me means more than 6 hours, and that rarely ever happens) I have tremendous brain fog the next day—just like being intoxicated. But that’s a symptom I’ve had for nearly a decade. The vertigo just reared its ugly head on August 8th of this year. Is brain fog a classic migraine symptom? If so, that’s a big clue as to the cause of my longest running medical mystery.

Thank you, ladies, for your thoughts. I can’t make heads or tails of any of this, let alone why a seemingly healthy woman became incredibly sick and nearly disabled out of the thin, blue sky. I’m already at the end of my rope with this, but, what’s there to do?

Nancy W: you mentioned your manuscript. Are you a novelist? If so, I’ve got some questions for you.

I, too, am a writer. Novelist, to be exact; dreams of publication have been derailed by this MAV monster. The most heartbreaking aspect of this vertigo is that I can’t be the mother and wife that I long to be, and that I was, but there’s another factor that pains me…aside from the obvious hell that is MAV. I spent four years writing my novel. I poured everything into it, spending painstaking amounts of time trying to perfect every aspect of it—though perfection isn’t attainable. My novel was, and is, my third baby. It’s been my dream to write, and to put my words in reader’s hands. My book was my passion, and the reason for so many hours spent alone, tucked in front of my computer, away from my husband and children, editing and editing, and then editing some more. But now…I can’t think clearly, I can’t write as I once did, and above all, I can’t look at the computer too long without provoking some serious nausea.

It’s as though I’m watching everything I love steadily fade, and I’m terrified of what my future will look like. There’s four things I adore, four things that are my reason for breathing, four things that mean everything to me: my husband, my two daughters, and my writing. At this point, I can’t provide for any of these. Where does that leave me?

Nancy W: how do you manage writing? How do you write through the vertigo and nausea? Has your writing suffered because of this?

Sorry for the rant, but good God! MAV is a unique form of torture, is it not?

8

The interesting thing is, the first symptom I ever had was the brain fog in the morning as well. Don’t know what that means either. I’ve had that for years now.

9

Seems like there must be a connection. Now, if we could just figure out what the heck it is.

10

Hi
I always thought it was weird that the less sleep I got the less dizzy I was. I now know I am not alone. At one time, I thought about seeing a sleep specialist because I thought it was so strange. I feel better if I get less sleep than if I get a full 8 hours or more of sleep.

Katie

11

Same here. I sleep very badly. If I only get 3 or 4 hours sleep I feel a lot better the next day and on the one or two occasions I have only got 2 hours in I have felt almost normal. If I sleep 6 hours (which is almost a lie in for me nowadays) I generally have a thick head the next day and more dizziness.

Even if I get 6 hours sleep, its always broken, the most I ever sleep in one go is 4 hours.

I did suffer from sleep paralysis in my 20s, I don’t know if that is a connection.

The connection may be with the serotonin as when I took Amitriptyline I slept for around 7 hours but still woke up every 2 hours and it was nearly all dream sleep. Then I woke with a thick headache every day.

Christine

12

Hi Guinevere, I read your other (new) posts and first I want to say I’m sorry you are having such a horrible time with your symptoms. Anyone would feel scared, stressed, and distressed about them. You have come to the right place for support and information on this board!

As others have mentioned, there seems to be a close connection between MDDS and migraine–presumably they are variants of the same thing. Does anyone in your family (parents, siblings, children) have migraines? If so, you are very possibly a migraineur without knowing it. (I had had low-level dizziness for 16 years before finding out I was a migraineur–when a visual aura came out of the blue!) Do you have a history of headaches?

I must also echo what others have said about trying meds. Many of them have side effects, but those vary greatly among individuals. (For example, I just saw one poster who said nortriptyline wasn’t sedating for her, or not very–but I’m trying it now and that was the biggest side effect for me–although it seems to be waning.) Many side effects go away if you can tolerate them for a little while. Finding the right medication can CHANGE YOUR LIFE. You owe it to yourself and your family to give it a try, under the guidance of caring and knowledgeable doctor, which can be a PCP or a neurologist or whoever you find. All they need is interest, knowledge (or a willingness to get some), and a prescription pad!

I too had a sudden event which triggered a “worse” period in my life, and that is a common story here, I think. I have been lucky and my dizziness problems are not nearly as severe as yours and others’, but still it was a real struggle to try to figure out what was wrong, what could be done about it, and how I could adapt when I had so much trouble working. I was so sad when I thought I was going to have to permanently quit my beloved copyediting work, but I WAS able to go back to it in time.

After a huge, hours-long dizzy spell in 1983, when I was 26, I had a very slowly increasing low-level but constant woozy-fogginess thing worsened by head motion. I just thought I was lazy and needed to slap myself across the face to concentrate better. In 1999 I sneezed hard and instantly lost the hearing in my left ear and had much worse dizziness. The dizziness settled back to its “normal” level after a few weeks but then got worse a couple months later, along with other odd neurological symptoms that remain unexplained to this day. (As does my dizziness, for which I have no official diagnosis, but I have self-diagnosed it as VM.)

Anyway, I was working as a freelance copyeditor, not writing, but copyediting scholarly manuscripts for university presses. Imagine trying to concentrate on that while dizzy! I can imagine that trying to home-school children is next to impossible!! I was fortunate to not suffer vertigo (spinning) or nausea unless severely provoked by too much head motion.

Eventually I had to change jobs (very regretfully) and became a library clerk, which I could manage because it was easier to concentrate when someone (library patrons) or something (piles of books to check in) are right in front of you demanding your attention. When you are FORCED to concentrate by something outside yourself, it’s easier to do. (Though still not exactly fun.)

In 2004 I discovered the magic pill, in my case Strattera (for ADD, although I don’t really have that), a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. This was after the dizziness-specialist neurologist had had me try Provigil and Ritalin in order to be able to concentrate through the constant “dizzyfog,” as I call it. All those meds helped greatly but Strattera was the best. I took it for 9 years (and went back to copyediting part-time, remaining part-time at the library) and am just now trying nortriptyline after a failed trial of venlafaxine, which didn’t seem to make me feel significantly better. (I stopped Strattera because my insurance changed and it got VERY expensive for me; also I wanted to try something that might actually lower the frequency of migraine events.)

So, to get to your actual question–I am really sorry to hear that the vertigo and nausea have derailed your novel FOR NOW–what I really want to say is, do NOT, NOT, NOT let yourself think that this will be a permanent situation. Most people DO get better, and most people find that help through (if avoiding triggers doesn’t work) finding the right medication. It can be a long and difficult haul to find the right med, but you CAN get your life back.

Also I forgot to ask, how old are you? If you are near menopause, you may feel much better once your hormones stabilize. That can take a long time (years), but I know that all my “weird stuff” occurred just when perimenopause hit me bigtime, and things stabilized after a couple of years even though I didn’t hit final menopause until five years later. (I’m a slowpoke. :slight_smile:

For now, let me echo what someone said to you on another thread (sorry I cannot remember the name). KIDS ARE RESILIENT. You are ill at the moment. You are very stressed by the whole thing, as anyone would be. You need to let go and lower your stress level, because this will be a true vicious circle–anxiety and dizziness go together like a horse and carriage, to quote the old song. (There is a physiological explanation for this–your vestibular system is “wired into” the sympathetic nervous system, the “fight-or-flight” response. This is why it’s ESSENTIAL to control stress and anxiety in order to treat dizziness).

To be the best mother and wife you can, you ABSOLUTELY NEED to take care of yourself first. You know on the plane, they say in case of depressurization, secure your own oxygen mask first, then help others. Your kids will be BEST SERVED by having a teacher who is not sick. If you were a teacher in a school, would you go to work every day and try to do your job in your condition? No. So why not let someone else teach your kids until you get better and can take over again?

Also as the other person said (if I go back and try to find his/her name, I’ll lose my typing here…), if you are in the military, are there any resources for family help that you can draw on? Counseling, medical advocacy, help with child care, help connecting to other resources in the community, etc.?

I understand how important a book can be, so I have no doubt about your novel being your “baby.” You cannot and will not let go of it, and you won’t need to. You might have to put things on hold awhile or slow down, but keep the faith. You WILL get it published. I am not a writer, but I have my own “baby” of a book that consumes my life, namely a book that my late aunt wrote and that I’m going to publish. I love it because it’s an incredibly important, amazing and delightful and exciting part of my life now. So don’t throw away your dreams–you need them, and your book, your children, and your husband need you. They need you to be as healthy as you can be, so keep trying to find something–it’s probably going to be a medication–that will help you.

If you have to change doctors, so be it, and you may have to do your own advocating for yourself. Do some research on the various migraine meds (lots of info on this board–see the various “sticky” posts), ask for advice here, go to your doctor with some ideas and ask what they think. You will probably want to try a migraine preventive that is also good for anxiety, or something else, depending on any other health conditions you have. If you are not getting good guidance (and RESPECT) from your doctor, change doctors.

Most importantly, do NOT give up and do NOT think that because the last few months have been hell, the rest of your life will be. You cannot allow yourself to despair, because #1 it’s wrong (you WILL get better–everyone does, to some extent) and #2 your family and your book need you to hang in there and get better–FOR THEM as well as for yourself.

Have you seen a neurologist who truly specializes in dizziness? Gotten second or third opinions if necessary?

Very best wishes to you, and please just look forward to the time (that WILL come) when you are better. Even if you have some symptoms, some struggle with it, all your life, that doesn’t mean it will be always be hellish like it is now. You are in a crisis period, but it WILL get better.

Take care,

Nancy

13

Nancy,

I can’t—truly can’t— thank you enough for your words, and for taking the time to write back to me. I hope you don’t mind my saying this, but your response felt very maternal; I don’t have the words to tell you how much that means. I don’t have family, or a mother, and your letter was exactly what I needed. In fact, it brought to me tears…in a positive way, of course.

To answer some of your questions: I’m 31 years old. I’ve seen several doctors (primarily Neurologists) over the years, for my brain fog and odd visuals. Since this vertigo hit, I’ve seen an Otologist at John Hopkins. He was the one who recommended that I first try the diet and lifestyle changes. I have a referral to a Neurologist who specializes in migraines/dizziness, but to be honest, I know they’ll offer me meds, and I’m still chipping away at trying to find something natural that will help. Maybe that’s terribly foolish of me. Probably is. But I’ve been following my heart, and I’m still holding out a little hope that something else will work—though I keep plummeting further down the rabbit hole. I know that, inevitably, I’ll have to resort to medication, and I need to be at peace with that. I’m working on it.

I just want you to know that I plan on reading this letter every day. I will come back to it when I’m feeling low, when I’m feeling hopeless, and when I need a healthy dose of love and reality. Your story is touching, too. Thank you so much for sharing that with me.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you, Nancy.

14

Dear Guinevere–you are very welcome! I’m glad you found my message comforting; I wish I could offer more than platitudes and encouragement, but YOU will find what helps you eventually (and people on this forum have a wealth of knowledge and experience, so ask lots of questions!). If you aren’t ready to try meds yet, I hope you DO find some more “natural” way to help your symptoms.

I think a lot of people on this forum have gone through hellish periods like yours, but eventually found their way out of them, one way or another. They may still suffer and may always have to deal with the dizziness (because migraine, if that’s what you have, and I’d bet it is, is a lifelong thing, as you know). But migraine activity CHANGES over time and gets better at times. So, keep going until you get over this awful hump, and you can look forward to better times.

Johns Hopkins should be a good place to get help. There’s a Dr. Zee there who’s well known in the “dizzy” world. At least I guess he’s still there. And he probably attracted other dizziness specialists there, too. Let us know how you make out at Hopkins.

I’m sorry to hear you don’t have a mother and a family. That must make it all that much harder to deal with things… children, moving, illness. But you sound like someone who knows herself and has the strength to take care of herself and do what she needs to do for herself and her family.

I am certainly old enough to be your mother–I have a daughter who is 31, and now I’m a grandma too!–so I can be your “forum mom” if you want. Call me anytime! :slight_smile:

I know how it feels to receive words of encouragement when you need them most. People have to have HOPE. I remember being overwhelmed with hope and encouragement when I read someone’s very philosophical post on an MS forum a few months after a neurologist basically told me, 13 years ago, out of the blue, that I had MS. I didn’t believe him at first, but I went home and read about it and realized he must be right. I remember the fear that hit me like a punch in my stomach every time I thought about it for the next few weeks. I remember thinking, I have to quit my beloved freelance work and get a job that could provide me with disability benefits in the future–and it made me deeply sad when I’d look at my shelf of well-thumbed reference books and realize that there was no need for me to buy the latest edition of the Chicago Manual of Style (the copyeditors’ bible); that career, I thought, was over. I thought, when I heard those words “MS,” that I had to get out and have some fun and do stuff that in the future I wouldn’t be able to do. I thought my episode of trigeminal neuralgia was going to turn into the “suicide pain” you hear about. I remember thinking, will I still be walking in a year? That is really scary. Well, none of that happened (except that I did get a different job); I never got an actual diagnosis of MS and the doctors say I don’t have it (I do, but they won’t diagnose it); I have gone places and done things; I am still working, still walking (although I can only work part-time and I can only walk 2 blocks continuously now without stopping to rest).

My point is, I saw my future in very dark and scary terms. But it has turned out far, far better than I feared. The dizziness stabilized, I got used to it, I learned to manage it, to keep going with my life despite the fact that the dizziness has never gone away. Looking at me, no one would know anything is wrong. The slew of other weird symptoms that kept coming and that puzzled and distressed me so much (after hearing “MS” from that guy) slowed way, way down eventually. I look back on those years of confusion, frustration, bewilderment, sadness, anger, etc. as a kind of storm I had to get through, and I did.

I don’t mean to sound like a blithe Pollyanna, especially because I know my symptoms are a picnic compared to what you and many others are going through. But I HAVE seen many people on this forum and other dizziness forums tell tales of getting better. And the ones who get a lot better often disappear from the forums, so the percentage of people who get better is even higher than it appears on this forum. So, please take heart from that.

And as Winston Churchill said, when going through hell, keep going!

Please keep posting and asking questions, and I wish you very best of luck with the neurologist at Hopkins and with anything else you try… SOMETHING will work, and time will help regardless.

Very best wishes,

Nancy

15

Nancy, you don’t sound like a Pollyanna at all. You’ve been through the ringer, too, and your experiences can, and do, provide assurance. Besides, what else is there to offer, aside from hope and kindness? Hope is a lot better than saying, “Yeah, your symptoms are horrible. Must suck to be you.”

I can only imagine what you went through when you received your MS diagnosis. That must have been incredibly hard…to put it lightly. And I completely understand feeling as though life has come to a screeching halt. Obviously—as you know— that’s where I am right now. Ironic that you mentioned The Chicago Manual of Style (I love that book, but now it’s just collecting dust). I’ve looked at my bookshelves—at all the books lining them, particularly my 2014 Writer’s Market—and felt like I’ll never again have a need for them. Then again, I’ve been feeling that way in regard to every aspect of my life. Why buy new shoes…even though I need them. I’ll probably be completely bedridden soon. Why buy a new winter jacket; I never leave the house. Why go anywhere, when all I feel is vertigo and nausea and disequilibrium. Luckily my husband is very sweet and caring, and he won’t allow me to live that way. He made me buy a new pair of shoes. He made me buy a new jacket. I don’t know if it just makes him feel better, or if he truly believes what he says: that I’ll get better. Either way, I appreciate his approach, because God knows I couldn’t handle it if he were just as scared as I am. Not that he isn’t scared, but he’s your typical military man: strong, unshakable, determined, and he doesn’t let his fears determine his attitude. My deepest fears branch from never having gotten over the brain fog and visual symptoms. The way I see it, or maybe I should say fear it, is that in a decade, the brain fog has never left me. In two and a half years, my strange visual symptoms have never left me…not once…not for a minute. Now that this vertigo has hit—24/7, just like the others—I don’t see why or how they’ll go away. I assume this is permanent…just like everything else.

I’m so glad to hear that your future turned out to be a lot less terrifying than you had originally feared. When symptoms keep building, and things seem to progress, it’s very easy to assume the worst. It’s natural, I think, to assume that a downward spiral will lead to rock bottom—not improvement.
I thank you for sharing all of this with me. It’s very hard to not have any family at all. Really hard. But I’ve got a great husband, and two angelic daughters. That doesn’t mean that I can’t use a little extra support and encouragement, though, and that’s what you’ve given me. It’s amazing how a common thread can bring strangers together, and how loving and supportive they can be. You’re a doll, Nancy. Just absolutely wonderful.
Thank you, thank you, and thank you again.

16

Guinevere, that’s GREAT that you have a supportive husband. A huge plus! I don’t know how people can stand it when their life partner doesn’t believe and support them when they’re ill. Having him will help you get through the worst here.

Don’t get rid of any of your reference books! Very bad idea! You will need them again! :slight_smile: And BTW, I can tell from your posts that you’re a really good writer. I keep forgetting to ask, what is your book about? (If you want to share.)

As for the brain fog never leaving, I know how that feels. What is amazing is that even though it may be, deep down, a permanent thing, THERE ARE WAYS TO COUNTERACT IT, magical ways. I hate to say it (because you say you want to avoid medication), but besides the mild sleep deprivation we’ve been talking about, the other ways I’ve found are stimulant-type meds: Provigil (modafinil), Ritalin (methylphenidate), and Strattera (atomoxetine). Those things lift the fog like taking a heavy veil away from my face. I remember how in the “old days” I’d be sitting in the recliner lost in a useless dizzy-foggy stupor, I’d take 10 mg of Ritalin, and within 20-40 minutes, my eyes would suddenly fly open, I’d sit up like Rip Van Winkle, look around, and say to myself, I’m going to do this, and this, and this. And then I’d actually do it! So instead of a wasted day, I’d have an at least partially productive one and get something done other than maybe taking a shower and getting the mail. Switching to Strattera later on was great because it gave me a 24-hour effect, lifting the fog a little less dramatically but perfectly well enough that I could read the newspaper again and hold conversations without a huge struggle.

So please don’t feel there’s no help for the brain fog. There IS. You just have to get out there and find it, via sleep regulation and/or the right med(s).

Think of it this way–if your vision were blurred, you wouldn’t just keep struggling to see; you’d go get glasses. Same with your head–find something to clear it up so you can function better. I don’t see any difference between availing yourself of modern optical technology and modern neurotransmitter-modulating technology to compensate for deficits that you cannot otherwise help!

Very best wishes,

Nancy

17

You’re a gem, Nancy. Thank you, a million times. And I will not get rid of my reference books. No way, no how. I’ll hold on to your positive message, and I’ll keep truckin’ along.

Thank you so much for complimenting my writing. I’m afraid it has taken a hit lately, due to all this crap, but I’m trying to exercise the ol’ grey matter and not let it slip. As for my novel, the genre is suspense. I’d be a liar if I said it didn’t reflect my own life, to a degree. I guess all writers slip aspects of their own lives into their work. We just can’t help it.

Everything else you said makes absolute sense. I have found—regarding the brain fog—that sleep is an important component. If I go to bed at the same time and wake early (no sleeping in past 6:30), I’m not as foggy. As I mentioned before: the nicotine in my e-cigarette has alway helped the most. I’ve spent years researching, trying to figure out why nicotine helps so, so much, but aside from a few possible reasons, I’m still not certain. Nicotine has been the only thing that keeps the fog at bay, about 70%, I’d say. I used to smoke cigarettes, but with the thousands of carcinogens, I gave that up. I’m not implying that nicotine is completely innocent; it certainly wouldn’t be a possibility it I had high blood pressure, but I’ve done extensive research into pure nicotine, and it’s far, far less harmful that cigarettes. I think it’s interesting that studies have shown that pure nicotine can decrease dementia in Alzheimer patients. Clearly there’s some significant relationship with the brain, but how that applies to me, I haven’t the foggiest. All I know is that every time I’ve quit smoking in the past, before I completely gave up cigarettes, I hit the fog wall so bad that I literally couldn’t function, and it never lifted. Guess I’m not too slick, because it took quite a few years to realize the connection. Even when I’d quit, happy to be rid of a bad habit, and not wanting to go back to cigarettes, I’d eventually break down—not due to withdrawals, because I was far past that phase—but because of the brain fog.

The last time I quit smoking cigarettes, 3 years ago, the fog was so unbearably that I couldn’t tolerate it, and that’s when I decided to dedicate some serious time to researching the nicotine connection. I was a hair away from buying nicotine lozenges, or the gum, but there are so many added chemicals in those, too, not to mention the risk of mouth cancer. That’s when my husband—having laughed at the e-cigarette before—did his own research, which he shared with me. The e-cigarette has 3 chemicals: vapor (what’s used in an inhaler), pure nicotine, and candy flavoring. Thus far, all research proves that it won’t cause cancer, so I agreed to try it, and since then, the fog hasn’t been as much of an issue for me. I was even back to driving again, as the brain fog had robbed me of that ability. It might be of interest that I decreased the amount of nicotine in my e-cigarette just before the vertigo hit.

Okay…I’ve gone on too long. You poor thing…listening to me blab.

I’m not sure if you’re in America, but if so, have a wonderful Thanksgiving. You’re a beautiful, lovely person, and I thank you for your compassion and advice.
XO

18

Guinevere, that’s really fascinating about the nicotine helping your brain fog. I don’t know much about nicotine, but I think it’s a mild stimulant, isn’t it? That fits with MY experience of stimulant-type meds (for ADD, narcolepsy) being a HUGE help to me, clearing up my head. Even back in the WAY old dizzy days for me, I found that cold pills with pseudoephedrine helped me, but I never knew why! I would take them for my stuffy “nose headaches,” which I now know to have been migraine, and now I understand why those pills helped.

My theory is that the fogginess comes from a migraine-damaged brainstem, the brainstem being involved in alertness and arousal. That is NOT any kind of scientific theory that I’ve read about, just my layperson’s speculation. I do know my brainstem has some kind of unexplained bad connections, because not only are my brainstem evoked potentials (a kind of auditory test that looks at brainstem activity) highly abnormal on both sides, but I’ve had some very strange symptoms in the past clearly indicating “crossed wires” in the brainstem.

If nicotine helps your brain fog, I bet that drugs raising norepinephrine or dopamine effects would help you even more.

Glad you aren’t getting rid of your reference books. :slight_smile: Although nowadays, it’s all pretty much online… my reference books are now in another room entirely and get little use, as Google and online sources have taken over!

Nancy

19

I have not read all of the posts on this thread but I wanted to chime in and say I too often feel better with less sleep. If it’s too little, I feel like crap. But if it’s a normal amount of sleep, I also feel bad. If it’s in between those, I feel better. However, because it’s not enough, I’m still very tired. It’s such a peculiar thing. Hearing the rest of you having the same experience makes me want to research why this is the cause for many Migraineurs??? The otologists that brought up sleep aepna has a valid point and one I’d like to look into more. My first neuro wanted me to see a sleep specialist but at that time I was “specialists” OUT. But now that this has been brought up, I may go see one.

If any of you do happen to see a sleep specialist, let us know.

MP