Migraine meds -- the "gospel"

There was an amusing post over at another forum the other day that I had to post hear. There’s a rather notorious few individuals over there who just love to frequently bathe in and peddle quackery and bash anything remotely scientific. It usually comes peppered with the usual “big pharma” conspiracy nonsense or “western medicine doesn’t treat the cause” of illness (obviously true sometimes) cliche. One person in particular is a bottomless pit of logical fallacies. I thought this was quite funny in one sense but not funny for a potential newb reading it:

This was the quote being answered to: “Look how many people come to this forum being told they have MM only to find out they have MAV, for example”.

And the answer:

— Begin quote from ____

But even there, the “science” is flawed and incomplete.

“No, you don’t have the syndrome-without-known-cause-or-cure-called-Meniere’s, you have the syndrome-without-known-cause-or-cure-called-MAV. The symptoms are the same, but we manage them with different medications, that, like Meniere’s medications, do not address the root cause. Since we see differences in the brain amongst those with migraine’s, we make the unproven assumption that they were born this way (“migraine brain”) and that is why we can’t address the cause.”

I am not disputing the helpfulness of migraine meds. It’s the unproven assumptions I see as flawed and incomplete, but worshipped as gospel truth at mvertigo. And because of those assumptions, those who make those assumptions immediately stop the process of trying to peel away different medical causes to 1) immediately help those specific subgroups and 2) see what’s left–and why.

I think there’s a problem with making assumptions at the beginning of a study and then going back to prove them after the desired results are obtained. It is possible under those circumstances to “prove” something that isn’t entirely true. I don’t mean that there is intent of dishonesty, but that there is an inherent flaw to the process.

— End quote

:lol:

So, we have a new label folks – the worshippers of migraine meds! I might set up a shrine in my room today, pile all of the various meds I’ve had a crack at over the years in the corner (I could open a pharmacy I think but most are probably past the use by date) and start gesticulating to the pile of little boxes. Maybe swing some beads around for added effect :lol: I’d happily worship this low dose of Paxil and valium that has enabled a life again.

Anyway, jokes aside, it’s the same old (massive yawn) schtick again with someone certain there’s some underlying mysterious cause that migraine medicines cannot fix or do not address. It goes without saying that any other possible medical problem such as a thyroid issue for example or some deficiency be ruled out in attacking a migraine-based problem because they can be significant triggers. We always say here to first remove the triggers first and then add the meds if trigger avoidance doesn’t clean up the mess. The third paragraph in the response above shows a great degree of ignorance and non-understanding in the scientific method. I’m convinced that no matter how many times you explain it to some people they will just never (refuse?) get it. It really becomes a problem when they spread their nonsense which may ultimately cause newbies to suffer with these symptoms needlessly or worse have some sort of destructive ear procedure thinking they have MM when it could be migraine-based.

Scott

People amuse me sometimes because they would rather put their faith in “mumbo jumbo” instead of things proven by the scientific method.

I met a woman who had a CLEAR case of BPPV and/or MAV but she refused to get treatment because she said she had given up on western medicine… She said she had gone to some natural healing doctors instead and when I asked if they helped her, she said they didnt. I wrote down these two conditions on a piece of paper for her and told her to talk to an Neurologist or ENT.

Hey Scott,

I find it interesting the way that someone’s perception of how things are totally skews their perception of everything else. By this I mean that this person obviously doesn’t agree with science, evidence-based medication, so they see mvertigo as a site that is promoting this. However, personally I don’t see this site in this way at all. In fact it only needs someone to read a few of the posts to see we have a huge mixture of people, some of whom (like myself) have made a decent recovery and put it down to meds, some of whom have made a decent recovery with lifestyle changes and no meds. And many people who have tried meds that don’t work, but are keeping trying. But also people who are quite anti-medication and don’t want to go down that route at all. The mixture of people and views is what makes this forum a great place for discussion. It’s certainly not a medication-worshipping place.

Apart from a few of you worshipping at the shrine of valium of course…no names mentioned :lol:

That’s too bad. If you join the discussions on the VEDA Facebook pages, etc. those people are hungry and desperate for any and every medical suggestion to pull themselves out of the"Lifetime Meniere’s Nothing We Can Do" diagnosis. I’ve posted on there regarding misdiagnoses, anti-seizure meds, and this forum and seen people post back who are incredibly receptive and proactive to their own improvement. I wouldn’t be doing better myself without the input, feedback, humor, etc. of this forum. I’m building my Topamax/Klonopin/Advil shrine right after I hit Submit, folks.
Gail : )

Hey guys – well said.

Beech – I like how you summarised it saying we have people here trying lots of different methods to knock this out – all in their own time when they’re ready. If there was ground breaking evidence tomorrow that a charcoal and horse manure diet was universally wiping out migraine, we’d all be throwing it on our cereal in the morning :lol: and no doubt be known as manure and charcoal worshippers. The irony is the people such as the one quoted become very narrow-minded (they will say it’s us!) because they won’t accept other treatments that don’t fit their fixed and rigid belief system (particularly meds which for now happens to be the best avenue for relief for most).

S

“Big Pharma” is responsible for some bad shit, but Western Med is not represented in its entirety by the sins of Big Pharma.

Yup, they have and so has just about anybody in the business of making money. Luckily, most of this stuff is regulated so hopefully we catch the bad boys when they pop up. It’s always amusing though how the big pharma conspirators never imagine that those in the VMS market are capable of the exact same thing. Some dodgy stuff went down in Australia in about 2002 over this. The supplement manufacturer was shut down.

S

— Begin quote from ____

It’s the unproven assumptions I see as flawed and incomplete, but worshipped as gospel truth at mvertigo

— End quote

Codswallop. Of the highest order.

Mvertigo is a refuge. It’s populated by cool people looking for ways to help themselves and others. That help, where it comes to treatment strategies is ALWAYS held up to scrutiny - is it plausible, reasonable, grounded in evidence, what does the literature say? This is exactly as it should be. Otherwise it would just be a bunch of random testimonies and hand holding.

Hand holding is nice and necessary - migraine knocks the emotional stuffing out of you - and I think we do it very well. But we also all want long lasting relief from our symptoms. For that we need treatment strategies.

Mvertigo does NOT push migraine meds on anyone (although Valium sure does have its fans, of which I am unashamedly one :slight_smile: ). Over and over we talk about lifestyle modifications such as diet, sleep and exercise as a first line defence. Given that so many migraineurs are incredibly med sensitive/intolerant (including, at the higher end of the spectrum, Scott) to suggest that meds are worshipped as gospel is just wonky, ‘hair shirt’ thinking.

— Begin quote from "beechleaf"

Apart from a few of you worshipping at the shrine of valium of course…no names mentioned :lol:

— End quote

YUMMY… Smarties… Pick me pick me!!!

:mrgreen:

I worship the V ooooohhhhhhhhhh wabbits … :smiley:

Boy, I’m glad I just stay in this forum, so I don’t have to get angry at the people who don’t get it. My life was essentially over until I found the right combination of meds. Yeah, I get regular sleep, watch what I eat, etc. but the meds gave my my life back. I’m a little sad b/c I can’t go to the 4th of July parade tomorrow morning that my husband is in because I know the heat and humidity will ruin me for a few days.

Yowza! I kinda got sucked into that post and all the drama surrounding it. They can be kinda nasty over there, huh?

Better living through pharmaceuticals, I say :slight_smile: I’d rather take a pill (or 5) for the rest of my life than be miserable and dizzy and not be able to live life.

— Begin quote from "Anne"

They can be kinda nasty over there, huh?

— End quote

That may be the understatement of the year! :lol: It’s like visiting Afghanistan for the day but I suppose that’s part of the fun too. There’s always something contentious going on.