Very interesting website.
Dr Stasha Gominak, Neurologist.
Migraine and sleep
Very interesting website.
Dr Stasha Gominak, Neurologist.
Migraine and sleep
This is interesting stuff about sleep. I don’t know if I buy all of this but I’m going to investigate the vitamin D and B12 thing. A recent series of blood tests showed I was on the bottom limit for vit D and I’ve had times where I was low on B vits. Taking a supplement gave me a charge again on more than one occasion.
I wonder if there’s anything in this:
I must say that the way she characterises migraine is bang on as far as I’m concerned. I’m impressed with the slides.
From listening to some of her presentations she seems to be saying that that Vitamin D will improve your sleep and improved sleep will help the migraine.
Scott, you seem to like these folks: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/new-recommendations-for-calcium-and-vitamin-d-intake/#more-8725 . This is their last article focusing explicitly on Vitamin D, and it kind of suggests that Dr. Stasha Gorminak is kind of out on a limb with her recommendations.
Perhaps you prefer the more recent report, which was supported by the UV Foundation, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3427198/
The author warns of many studies showing common Vitamin D deficiency, defined levels below 25 nG/ml. He mentions that keeping levels above 30 ng/ml is considered adequate by the Endocrine Society while at the same time preventing secondary hyperparathyroidism. Gorminak in her outlier wisdom recommends maintaining levels between 60 and 80 nG/ml.
FWIW, I find it harder to take scientific claims by a researcher–well, no, a practitioner–seriously when Gorminak strews her paper with abundant quotation marks that serve no obvious purpose except perhaps to indicate her scorn for the mainstream positions with which she disagrees. This affectation doesn’t prove her a quack, but does make it harder to take her valiant, embattled position seriously.
I’ve been majorly deficient multiple times, and definitely felt better after supplementation - not sure it helped directly with migraines, but helped my overall health and energy. I’m not sure I could even get my levels to those recommendations.
I agree David. Large grains of salt being taken with this and I suspect she is out on the fringe with this. To her credit she does say that none of what she is saying is necessarily truth and that years from now it may all be bunk. This is at least somewhat different from the majority of loons out there who will try and tell us they are dead right and “SBM” hasn’t clue.
I was found to be B12 deficient several years ago, around 105 (below the reference range), I have been having B12 injections every 3 months since then. For the first week after the B12 injection I generally have bad migraine, and can have vertigo. My sleep has got worse over the years, not better, but I have to admit, I have always had a “sleep” problem ever since I was a teenager.
Last week, for instance, I went around the clock on no sleep whatsoever, on two nights, I didn’t even feel that bad during the day!
I had my Vitamin D level checked last year and it was lowish at 57 (the dr. recommended me taking extra Vitamin D). Every type of Vitamin D gives me migraine (I have a friend who is low in Vitamin D and she has tried several different type of Vitamin D and gets migraine too).
As usual, I haven’t a clue what is going on, why Vitamin D should give me migraine. I couldn’t take it long enough to see if my sleep improved, but I may try it again.
As a matter of interest, I have a friend (have known her for 30 years) she sleeps like a log every night and gets terrible migraines.
Also, how would this relate to several of us on the forum who feel better with less sleep than more?
Or is it just connected to the amount of “deep sleep” we have, in which case, maybe, when we only have 3 or 4 hrs sleep a night, we just get a good amount of “deep sleep”.
I know when I was on amitryptiline I slept loads but it was all broken and dream sleep, I woke with a thick head every day.
Sorry to ramble, but a very interesting topic.
This is very interesting,
The longer my condition has gone on the worse my sleeping has become - I tend to fall asleep OK but wake early and then am restless until I wake up and I often wake up with a headache even if I went to bed without one.
Also I took a sublingual vit B12 supplement for about 6 months in the year before I first got the vertigo. I had a classic aura migraine the next day after taking the first tablet (no pain or vertigo then). The B12 gave me much increased energy, which was partly the reason I took it as well as the fact that I was getting unexplained nerve pains in my legs. I had blood tests at the time and my B12 measured “normal” in the low 300’s. I noticed I slept very well when I took the B12 and awoke refreshed but also found I was getting a few headaches which I thought might be triggered by it. I stopped taking after 6 months as my energy levels seemed to be normal by then and it wasn’t really helping any more with the nerve pain.
About 4 months after stopping taking it the MAV started…
Christine - what types are you trying? There are two major types - D2, and D3. A lot of the D3 kinds (some D2 as well) are packed with fish oils or other fats to help them absorb better - great from a vitamin standpoint, sucks if you have any of those things as a trigger. I was prescribed the high dose D2 when I was first dx as deficient (my levels were between 7 and 13, so BAD), and had zero problems with it. Then I was supposed to switch to OTC supplements to continue and had failure after failure. My most tolerated ones are the gummy version put out by vitafusion (I think that’s the brand?), but still don’t tolerate them as well as the Rx for some reason. Long story short, I am thinking it’s the fillers the vitamin is packed with, not the vitamin itself.
They have all been D3 as I was told this is the one I should take, but if it contains a load of fish oil that could be the problem. The last one I have is Natures Best D3, no nasties that I can see but I had no idea about the fish oils.
I will definitely give the D2 a go instead.
Thanks for the information.
Yeah, it will vary person to person depending on your triggers, but I had trouble with the D3 formulas with fish oils in them, and I didn’t realize how many were packed with it or other oils that gave me trouble. If you do go for D2, make sure to take it with a meal with fat in it (helps with absorption), and you may need to take a bit more IUs than with the D3 depending on how your blood level is.
EDIT: I looked up your brand, and I agree, I don’t see much in there to cause issues. Do you always take it with a meal?
No I don’t always take it with a meal, but I just read the D3 is a lot more potent than the D2, maybe I should cut them in half. I read the D3 is derived from animals and the D2 from mushrooms, anyway, I will try the D2 just to see if I can tolerate them.
It’s more well absorbed, yes. Definitely always take it with a meal if possible, as your body needs the fat to get the most from the vitamin - it also helps cut down on any potential stomach upset, etc. that can occur with it. Good luck!
she advises to go to www.vitamindcouncil.org. for For questions about Vitamin D deficiency and doses.
— Begin quote from "david shapiro"
Scott, you seem to like these folks: Perhaps you prefer the more recent report, which was supported by the UV Foundation, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3427198/ The author warns of many studies showing common Vitamin D deficiency, defined levels below 25 nG/ml. He mentions that keeping levels above 30 ng/ml is considered adequate by the Endocrine Society while at the same time preventing secondary hyperparathyroidism. Gorminak in her outlier wisdom recommends maintaining levels between 60 and 80 nG/ml.
— End quote
Hi David. That report isn’t so very different from Dr Gominak’s recommendations. The report says “The Guidelines defined vitamin D deficiency as a 25-hydroxyvitamin D < 20 ng/mL, insufficiency as 21–29 ng/mL and sufficiency as 30–100 ng/mL”.
By comparison Dr Gominak advises 60 TO 80 ng/mL and not to go below 50 ng/mL.
Aren’t these two suggestions compatible?
My B12 levels were borderline, so my rheumatologist checked my methylmalonic acid level (which indicates a true deficiency) and it was 3 times normal levels. He put me on monthly injections in 2005 and I still get them. About the same time, I was diagnosed with vitamin D levels <20, began supplements and continue to take them. My last two labs showed me holding at 83.6.
When my migraine with aura began in 1998, I had one approximately every 4-6 months. Now, even with the vitamin levels under control, I’m having anywhere from 1-4 per month. My main migraine problem, however, is vertigo/dizziness/imbalance which began in 2000, and that HAS improved over the last two years.
I’m not sure how I feel about the vitamin levels improving sleep thus improving migraine. I need to give that some thought.