NSAID & rebound, when?

Does anyone know WHEN rebound becomes an issue? Not the “2/week, 10/month” thing. I mean, if I take a painkiller three times a week, “once”, it’s not going to be a problem. There has to be some kind of lower limit when it actually becomes a problem.
I’m afraid I’m already there, but, well… It’s damn hard to NOT take it when you know it helps! :frowning:
I started taking them at all august 8:th. Since then, I’ve had periods of 13 days where I’ve taken 6 times, but also periods of a week with zero. The last 11 days have been way over the top, though, I’m afraid.
I KNOW that the only way to not make this a problem is to stop, but what the hell, it’s hard when there’s nothing else to go to!

Uh, yeah, so main question: how long does it take?
Even more confusing is the fact that Buchholz claims that NSAIDs simply don’t cause rebound, when everybody else says that they do. He obviously bases this on his own experience, but isn’t it odd that he of all people says they’re OK? :?

I can tell you what Hain said to me:

He said, first, that they are very effective, for pain and for dizziness.

He also said that 2-3 times a week would not cause you a problem with rebound.

Does that help?

I talk to him in two weeks. If that doesn’t answer your question, give me a better question to ask (you may already have, but repeat it for me) and i’ll ask him.

Julie

That’s interesting that they help with dizziness as well as pain, I never realised. My neurologist said NO over the counter painkillers but if Hain and Bucholz says we can take them 2-3 times per week…I tempted!

they are definitely effective regarding dizziness. I had to drive a total of 3 hours to get my cat to the hospital to have all her teeth pulled due to the Bartonella (which I didn’t know at the time). I loaded up on ibuprofen going and coming back (and I mean I loaded up!) I really felt pretty good when I got home, better than I would have if i had stayed home. Hain is right. He just said, don’t use them more than 2-3 times a week.

Of course there are the risks to major organs and organ systems to consider, GI bleeding, hepatotoxicity, cardiovascular risk, etc.

My brother, after having had an aneurysm bleed in his brain when he was 16, has been on Dilantin, and then Tegretol for some 35 years now. When I asked him why he didn’t ask for some of the newer ACs with fewer SEs profiles. He said, wait until they’re around longer, their lists will get longer.

I think he was right. the NSAID adverse reactions list is growing and growing and the nature of the reactions has become increasingly severe.

But, I do use them occasionally. It’s got to be safer than driving doped up on Valium.

Julie

P.S.

I’m sorry you’re suffering with so much pain, Tran, buddy :cry:

Julie

If it helps at all, (from what I understand :mrgreen: ) MOST rebound headaches are caused by withdrawal. Usually it is from an opiate pain med or even caffiene, in other words stuff that can cause addiction. Even if no addiction exists, there can by a minor amount of withdrawal that appears in the form of a headache, or a migraine.

With NSAIDs, rebounds occur for a different reason. It has something to do with what it does to the blood to reduce inflamation, and when it wears off, that effect can be reversed causing vascular reaction, such as the type expereinced in migraines.

How this effects the frequency that you can take before you get a rebound, I can’t tell you, so I would recomend going with what Julie said. She seems to be our leading expert on how to prevent headaches/migraines. :smiley:

Brian

I’ve been taking ibuprofren for my dizzies for quite awhile now.

I just kinda grabbed for it out of desperation when I started to spin in bed one night. Within an hour after taking it, the spinning let up enough to where I could actually sleep. Since then, I’ve kinda been sold on it.

Tran - I know where you are coming from. I have the same concerns. I use it as sparingly as I can, because nobody really seems to know how much is too much. (Between you, me and the fencepost, I kinda prefer Buchholz’s opinion on it :wink: )

When I take it, I only need to take one (200 mg.), and I rarely ever take more than one in the same day. Sometimes I’ll take it 3 - 4 days in a row, and then go several days without it. I really think I take too much, I would like to cut back, but like you said - its hard when there is nothing else. I have wrestled with the same questions, I worry about rebound, and I worry about what it might be doing to my overall health in general (like Julie pointed out).

Julie, maybe you could ask Hain again - 2-3 times per week at what dosage?

Kim

Oh, Brian you are too much! I think what you really meant to say is this “Julie thinks she’s the leading expert in how to prevent migraine” I’m right aren’t I? See - caught ya! :mrgreen:

I tell you guys all these neat tricks, but nobody listens to me. You guys are as bad as my family. Nobody listens to me! :mrgreen:

Like the EMU oil. I’ve told you a million (i’m cracking up as i’m writing this) times to put it on the spot where the trigeminal nerve tracks out of the skull, where you feel tenderness. in fact i’m going to put some on right now! I guarantee you the pain will disappear. And if it doesn’t i’ll send you your money back! It may take awhile, but if you just do it every morning, you’ll no longer get those headaches. But nobody listens to me! :mrgreen:

okay, i’ll quit now, i had my laughs.

Kim, that’s a great question, i will ask him that in two weeks. 2-3 times a week at what dosage. That time i told you i loaded up. i looked at the bottle. it was early morning. I thought I was taking 200 mg tablets so i downed 4 of them. I know that 800 mg is often prescribed. WELL, i got home and looked at the bottle again, they were 250 mg tablets, i had taken 1,000 mg of ibuprofen. i was as still as a deer in headlights after 3 hours of driving. i hadn’t been that still in 6-7 years.

Any other Hain questions? (except for Brian, you’re out buddy :mrgreen: )

Julie

— Begin quote from "Julie"

Like the EMU oil. I’ve told you a million (i’m cracking up as i’m writing this) times to put it on the spot where the trigeminal nerve tracks out of the skull, where you feel tenderness. in fact i’m going to put some on right now! I guarantee you the pain will disappear. And if it doesn’t i’ll send you your money back! It may take awhile, but if you just do it every morning, you’ll no longer get those headaches. But nobody listens to me! :mrgreen:

— End quote

Hmmm. Does it only work locally (for the pain there) or can it help the whole migraine process? I don’t get very much pain - the pounding is annoying but it doesn’t hurt very bad - but when I have it, I feel crap(!) in general. If you think it’ll help, I promise to try it ASAP. :smiley:

— Begin quote from "Julie"

I talk to him in two weeks. If that doesn’t answer your question, give me a better question to ask (you may already have, but repeat it for me) and i’ll ask him.

Julie

— End quote

Regarding this offer: thanks :slight_smile:
I think the question is, since I know his stance on how often: (how much) does dosage matter? Is taking 200mg (ibuprofen) twice a week the same as taking 800mg twice a week, rebound-wise?

(I usually take 200mg ibuprofen, but have taken 400mg (once). Before that, I was using naproxen (375-500 mg) but switched because of suspected side effects.)

/Tran

Tran,

Regarding the EMU (thanks for listening :slight_smile: ) what i do is put it on any place i can find where the trigeminal nerve leaves the skull and enters dermal layer. I can try to describe it to you. I can even send you some good anatomy diagrams i found on line. I knew I had hit the right spot, it was on my right side, it was at the point in my temple, near the orbit (there’s a little hole in the skull near the orbit where the trigeminal nerve leaves the skull in order to innervate the facial structures) and when i pressed on it, it HURT! i followed it down towards my ear, along that ridge at the top of year cheek bone to your ear, and all along that length is HURT! So i knew I had found the nerve’s path.

I massaged the oil in lightly, didn’t want to bother it any further.

No, the idea is not to treat it locally. I got the idea from those who are using dental splints to help with their migraines, (dizziness, headache, aura, whatever) and having success. anything to take irritation off that nerve should, in theory, take some load off. It’s like taking ibuprofen - the reason it works is because it’s a powerful anti-inflammatory, yes? except it hits the entire nerve. This hits only the part of the nerve you can actually get at.

But I can tell you from experience, when I use it, i feel better. The only kinds of headaches i ever used to get were those “headachey” kinds of feelings. I would wake up with pain in my eye and feel headachey the rest of the day. Not much to complain about given everything else. but it sure feels better to be without them. And I am feeling less rocking, not a lot, but that’s been across the board for me. Everything I do, every preventative I add helps me some, nothing takes it all away, but you add them all together and you end up with “much improved.” I wouldn’t trade this for my Pristiq, but i’m glad i’m using it.

And I don’t actually use it daily, if i said that above, i was only ranting and being silly. :slight_smile:

I will ask Hain your question about dosage and keep you posted. Thanks for being a good sport :wink:

Julie