SSRIs

I’m wondering what you guys thinks about the SSRIs in treating this crap? For years I maintained about 95% on Cipramil (Celexa) but had to dump it because of increased headache activity, myalgia, and the fact that I turned into a lard ass.

Right now I’m on a low dose of Paxil which keeps me even-keeled but isn’t dealing with the whole mess as I would like. Creeping up on Paxil has proved to be very hard for me (it’s like a rocket up my butt) but is worth pursuing again I think to end this out of control visual vertigo that plagues me so badly.

So my question: what the hell is the difference? Does Celexa really have properties for MAV that Paxil does not or Zoloft or Prozac for that matter? I find it hard to believe. I think ALL of the SSRIs are useful for MAV in those who respond to them. The trick is finding the SSRI that you can tolerate and once you do tolerate it, then it does it’s thing for MAV. If you can tolerate the particular SSRI, serotonin is increased in the brain and MAV is tamed in the responder.

I ask this because I find myself considering Cipramil again but know I’ll hate every second of it. Instead, why not try to boost Paxil which will not be easy. Oddly enough, Cipramil never caused me increased anxiety, Paxil does initially. Paxil, on the other hand causes no myalgia etc nor am I an obese mess on it.

Thnaks … Scott 8)

I was going to post on my progress with Prozac. For me, SSRIs have proven to be pretty effective. The first time around I was on Celexa–and stopped due to weight gain and thinking I was better. Dizzies came back and I started on Prozac. The last 2-3 weeks I’ve been better by 80-90% and I’m very happy and hope it stays this way.

I know the ramp up on SSRIs can be tough, believe me! But I have found that it is worth it in the end. I started Celexa at 2.5mg and slowly worked up from there. Same thing with Prozac, although I started at 5mg. Took me 7 weeks to finally get up to 20mg, and I’ve been at that dose the past 3 weeks.

I had increased anxiety with both, but definitely worse with Prozac. It is more stimulating that Celexa, so my doctor thought it would a good choice since Celexa seemed to numb me. I did have to rely on Ativan to calm the nerves the first few weeks, and had some issues with sleeping, but taking it in the morning helped with that. The one potential problem I’m still evaluating with the Prozac is the actual migraine headache and whether that has increased while the dizzies have decreased. Seems like I’ve had more headaches on Prozac.

I never felt 100% on Celexa though, but at the time didn’t think it was migraine so hadn’t modified anything except getting better sleep. I’m increasing my exercise this time around, along with the migraine diet, so I hope I’ll see more improvement.

If you’re already on Paxil, maybe try slowly going up and using the Valium to calm the nerves? I think that’s what I’d do in your shoes.

Hey Scott,

I think you need to accept that you are unlikely to find a med that gets you to 100% and with no side effects.

Yes, I’ve done great on Prothiaden but I’ve put on 10 kilos and have (almost) zero libido. For those reasons I am getting off it (and so far so good, I appear to be in remission) but if the symptoms come back I’ll have no problems going back on the Prothiaden. I can live with being a bit chunky and disinterested in men. It beats the bejesus out of being trapped in unrelenting migraine hell - where I could barely leave the house and felt like I was dying. Every. Waking. Minute.

It seems to me like your thinking is getting a little screwy : first off you say this
— Begin quote from ____

For years I maintained about 95% on Cipramil

— End quote

but then you say that if you went back on it
— Begin quote from ____

I find myself considering Cipramil again but know I’ll hate every second of it

— End quote

. Why would you hate every second of something that gave you 95% of your life back?? I think you might be catastrophising or being a bit unrealistic. NONE of us are 100%. Last week I had a fair amount of vertigo (the rocking, the falling feeling, the floors dropping away), today some derealisation. I occassionally get stand alone migraines (with scintillating scotoma), other times, face pain, aches & pains, stuffy nose etc. It’s part of the deal.

Long story short - I think you need to have a real think about what your ‘essentials’ and what your ‘desirables’ are. I’d like to lose the weight but it’s not essential. Having a relatively normal life which is not ruled by f*cking migraine is essential.

Just my three dollars fifty.

Vic

Vic,

I’m sure I’ve told you the story on Cipramil a number of times. I was on it for 4 years and it had INTOLERABLE pain side effects in the end which outweighed the benefits. I can deal with a decreased libido and can keep the lard off if I put my mind to it but I cannot deal with the myalgia, aching joints, and persistent pain Cipramil created – namely unrelenting neck pain and headache. That’s the hating every minute of it part that is extra nasty when titrating up on it at around the 10 mg mark. In terms of dizziness, visual vertigo, derealisation, and positonal vertigo, it eliminated 95% of it. That was very nice indeed and in times like these where I am having a very rough time at a new job with a new screen (or getting used to an old one) it does seem attractive again (how easily we forget the bad bits of these meds). If I didn’t get the myalgia I’d still be on Cipramil today end of story. In fact, while on Cipramil, I continued to trial other meds to kill the pain part of it all – such as Topamax and Pizotifen.

I have never said I expect to find a drug that will be without side effects nor one that I will feel 100% on! Some have that luxury (no side effects and 100%) and some don’t. No idea what gave you that impression. There’s nothing catastrophic or unrealistic going on in my thinking. :? ) and seem to be rather robust with medication tolerance overall. Pro rattled your cage a little bit while titrating up and has caused you to put on weight etc. But it was never too much to keep away from work. You’re lucky.

I’m wondering if anybody has ever considered mixing SSRIs before? Today I thought about whether or not it would work if I added a small dose of Cip – say 5 mg – to the Paxil. A low dose of Cip may avoid the myalgia, not cause a rocket up the back side effect I get from Paxil and give me a better result that will kill the visual vertigo. May run it by a GP. Cannot see why that would be a potentially bad mix in terms of serotonin problems.

Anne – it’s strange how some of these SSRI seem to increase headache while others do not. Annoying stuff. I found a case study a while back where a depressed woman developed nasty migraine headache after she was put on Cipramil. The headaches etc stopped when she came off the med.

Scott

Hi Scott,

it’s a nightmare contemplating new drugs whilst you are at work. especially a new job. I wonder if pregabalin might work it is also used for pain control. You could take it alone or add it to the mix of the other drug that dealt with the dizziness etc but caused pain.

I will be asking Dr S if I can try an SSSI. i do recall I was on Dothiepam many years ago for depression . Initially it made me feel awful and high as a kite, and that was pre MAV!

Hey Scott,

Good luck with your next appointment with Granola. Hopefully he’ll have some ideas up his sleeve.

Vic

Scott - sorry you’re going through all this while beginning your new job. How about switching to klonopin instead of using the valium?? Maybe that would give you what you need. It’s an amazing med and is very valuable in calming the brain down. Don’t know if you previously tried klon before or not. It would not give you the rough ride that adding or increasing an SSRI would.
Blessings,
Gail

— Begin quote from “scott”

I’m wondering if anybody has ever considered mixing SSRIs before? Today I thought about whether or not it would work if I added a small dose of Cip – say 5 mg – to the Paxil. A low dose of Cip may avoid the myalgia, not cause a rocket up the back side effect I get from Paxil and give me a better result that will kill the visual vertigo. May run it by a GP. Cannot see why that would be a potentially bad mix in terms of serotonin problems.

— End quote

Check with a pharmacist too as they’re more knowledgable on drug interactions!! I had a wicked reaction to one 20mg tablet of Citralopram!!! Burning sensation in arms, legs, neck that lasted nearly 2 weeks!!!

I think Im sliding downhill a bit since stopping the daily Valium. Brain feels more ramped up, ears more blocked (which makes dizzies worse), popping, and general overall sh*t feeling (yesterday was bad!). I feel that sometimes I can actually hear low level buzzing inside my brain!!

But Dr S says NO BENZOS until he sees me nxt :cry:

I WANT KLONOPIN!!! :twisted:

I’ve not mixed SSRI/SSNIs, but I do know people who have. Adding Welbutrin for example, when you’re worried about weight gain or sedation from an SSRI. I thought about that with the Celexa weight gain and dullness it gave me, but decided to try another SSRI. I might add something to the mix if Prozac continues to be a bit too stimulating.

Have you tried to get to a minimum therapeutic dose on Paxil (I’m not sure what that is with Paxil)? I know for me with both Celexa and Prozac, I did not feel the improvement until a week or two after hitting the minimum therapeutic dose. I’m very med sensitive too, so low and slow was the approach and it worked–I just had to tough it through the start up side effects.

Hi
As much as all ssri’s increase serotonin, there are obviously differences. Most doctors and pharmacists ate the first to admit " the mechanism of action is not known" or something to that effect. Paxil is THE most serotonergic of the ssri’s, with the highest incidence of weight gain and sexual side effects (80% of users) yet zoloft and Prozac were intolerable to you, right? As was lexspro? Since these seem the only ssri you can tolerate, and you can’t get to therapeutic level of paxil, I totally think it’s worth throwing in a small amount if celexa.
And I would consider trailing klonopin, maybe try the real deal instead if generic. I hear it’s best,
Good luck!

Hey Scott,
I am really sorry you are feeling as you are and I think you received a lot of good advice. You know what I am gonna say as we discussed this privately before… Vitamin V(alium) my friend! It works so well for you, so maybe a steady low dose of that or klonopin which is a smoother ride is all you need. You are on a sub-therapeutic dose of Paxil and because of it’s short half life many patients have such difficulty tolerating it…not to mention coming off of it. And the suggestion of adding a drug like neurontin or lyrica to help your neck pain (and maybe MAV too) is also a good option if you go the celexa route. Zoloft, which I think Vic mentioned you tried already, tends to be more weight neutral for some reason. Such a smart forum!!!

Hang in and keep us posted.
Warmly,
Lisa

Hey Scott,

I hate that blasting to the moon feeling…Could you be on both?

Is Paxil the drug the latest nuerologist gave you that said would wipe out the dizziness? I’m interested in trying that although I know the name in the US is different. I hate the dizziness vs. weight gain- trust me. My job is somewhat a “local celebrity” and it kills me that I have gained weight but I would take that 20 lbs. in a heartbeat over being dizzy, wait…I’m still rocking and rolling- this isn’t fair!!! Good luck with your choice!

Lisa – still spooked by the V used non-stop after 2 weeks back. I’m over the dependence issue now but once saturated on V (about day 6) very weird shit started happening. I’m using V in the usual doses now when required with a one day break here and there and all is good right now with it. Not jacking me up since the job stress ended. That was yet another weird effect after 6 days of it at 5 mg. Kelley left me some K that I’m going to have a crack at over the Easter weekend. Definitely seems to be something in it that out performs the other benzos for MAV given the reports here and more recently Todd’s result on it (but not with Xanax).

Anne – adding Welby to an SSRI is not uncommon as Welby is not an SSRI. It is often cited as the drug to add to pick up an SSRI-whacked libido. I have a friend in Canada taking a combo of Prozac and Welby and she loves it (for depression).

Muppo – sorry to hear you’re sliding and the doc won’t give you a benzo! Man, that sucks. They hate writing scripts for them in Australia as well. Lately though, I’ve lucked out and found one GP around the corner who had no problem handing out some Xanax.

Kelley – as always thanks for the pharm input. You should have a degree on this by now! :lol:

Day 2 on the old screen and I continue to improve. Yay.

S 8)

i’ve often thought about trying prozac sometime - the liquid so i can control the small dose. it might hype me up like celexa at first but might be worth a shot. I remember Scott - you told me about prozac liquid. After reading Anne’s post i think it was it makes me wonder about trying it

i know a couple of people that take it not for dizziness but sadness and it helps them

chris

hey scott,
sorry you’re having problems with the job change or rather the stupid computer screen! that has to be so frustrating. if dizziness and any kind of rocking, swaying, or whatever “vertigo” is your main problem for now, i would definitely give the klonopin a try over the holiday weekend and see if you can tolerate it. i know i’ve posted this before and i believe discussed it with you as well on another occasion but it really has helped me tremendously over the past few years. i know my problem originates from a different source than yours, mine orginially being meniere’s and all, i still think it’s worth a go. especially given how well valium has helped you in the past.

i don’t have the problems you do with trialing new meds so i hope the klonopin won’t cause you any issues. the only side effect i had that i quickly got over was that it made me sleepy initially.

good luck to you! i hope you find something that works for you soon!

nicki

— Begin quote from “scott”

Muppo – sorry to hear you’re sliding and the doc won’t give you a benzo! Man, that sucks. They hate writing scripts for them in Australia as well. Lately though, I’ve lucked out and found one GP around the corner who had no problem handing out some Xanax.

— End quote

Hey buddy - my GP will give me the V and I have a large bottle of the stuff I keep in my handbag for emergencies but Dr S said I must stop using them until he sees me next so he knows if the Nort is really working/helping or not.

I have definitely gone downhill but it seems to be stabilising now so Im just going to see how long I can go for with hitting the bottle :lol:

Now though Ive got sodding hayfever kicking in which drives me bat shit mad … Will no doubt end up having the steriod injection in my butt as per usual and who knows - that might kill my MAV too…?! (wishful thinking)!

Hang in there my friend and continue flying in the new job x

— Begin quote from “iwantjrm”

i’ve often thought about trying prozac sometime - the liquid so i can control the small dose. it might hype me up like celexa at first but might be worth a shot.

— End quote

Chris – I think this is a very good idea. I know another lady who was in your shoes re meds named Gloria. She was freaked by the thought of using an SSRI because of a bad experience on Zoloft (which messed with her thyroid she thought). Her doctor finally convinced her to try this liquid Prozac route starting on a microdose. She gradually increased it over about 3 months. Now this was a lady who suffered with unrelenting MAV for YEARS. This approach turned her life around. She’s not 100% but her migraine issues are now just a faint glimmer of what they were and no longer rules her life.

Why don’t you run it by your GP?

Mupp – must be brutal knowing there’s a whle bottle of those little babies screaming for you to eat them alive. Interesting about Dr S saying to stay away. I would have thought you’d know if Nort was working regardless of the V going down the hatch. It seems to go that way with an SSRI.

Nicki – thanks for the K info. I’ll def crack on over Easter!

S

I’ve been stuck on Sertraline for 10 years - don’t think it does much really except for making me dizzy as hell when I try to come off it. I don’t think Dr S is very keen on SSRIs. He’s told me to come off it very gradually - over 6 months. What worries me though is that the Pizotifen he’s started me on is something to do with seratonin, as is the SSRI - are they doing the same thing to the seratonin or opposite things? One’s a reuptake inhibitor and the other’s a seratonin antagonist - sounds like opposites to me :?

Hi Chris
Nice to see you! I think Prozac would be ideal
To try. You can start as low as 1% and move up slowly. With it’s week long half life, withdrawal shouldn’t be a problem either!!
Between that and klonopin you might get total relief!!
Kelley