Stress, Panic, Anxiety

Hi all-

Been noticing more and more lately people mentioning stress, anxiety and panick attacks. I guess this may have been discussed before, but I’d like to bring it up again. I’d like to get everyone’s thoughts, opinions and experiences on it.

For me, I was originally diagnosed with “panic attacks”. (Many years ago.) I’ve kind of come to the conclusion that through the years my migraine auras have evolved from "panic attacks (depersonalization and derealization - not the “Oh God, I can’t breathe” type panic attacks) to several years of periodic “visual auras” (wavy, zig-zag lines in a semi-circular motion in my field of vision) to what I experience now, which is vertigo/dizziness.

I can also say, my “big crash” two years ago, was during a time of “extreme” stress. My husband was in the final stages of a two year battle of cancer (stress beyond belief). I keep hearing people talk about going through major life crisis when all of this hit, but I’m still having a hard time thinking thats what caused it. I kind of tend to think that through the years, my migraines have just changed in the way they present themselves. (???) I also am fully aware of all the major stuff stress can do to one’s body.

I know its the “what comes first, the chicken or the egg?”, and we may not ever know, but I am really curious to know how many were diagnosed with “panic and anxiety” before they ever even thought about migraine?

Just curious.

Kim

Hi Kim
Don’t know how I feel about the stress issue and its relationship to MAV. I’ve certainly had a tonne of it too and it was one of my first questions that I asked my neuro. My parents were both killed in a car accident 10 months before my “big crash” and to add to all of that our son was going through those hellish rebellious teenage years (and I mean “hellish!!!”) during and prior to that incident, which was pretty relentless. I can tell you, I had many, many sleepless nights…it’s only now we are beginning to see a lot more maturity and glimmers of a lovely young adult to be (he turns 18 in a week, yahoo!). I was devastated by my parents deaths, I had an extremely close relationship with them and know that it caused immense stress, but I’m a pretty pragmatic person and, I thought, coped amazingly well all things considered. All of my friends have said that they think that the combination of both situations and the stress it caused, influenced my MAV. That would all correlate quite well as my “big crash” was 26 March 06, my parents accident, 9 June 05, however I did have two medical incidents approximately 12 months prior to that, a bad ear ache lasting approximately 2 weeks and a separate bout of motion sickness where I was laid out on the floor for about 36 hours. This makes me think that perhaps it was all building towards my “big crash”, and still do ponder whether it had a “stress” relationship or not.
My neuro said emphatically, no and no to hormones and most everything else I threw at him. He simply asked, was there anyone in my family with migraine (my mum developed migraine with aura about the same age as my MAV developed, I was 46 when it happened. My brother suffers from migraine too, but his is very controllable), so that left me to ponder the stress issue many times since. So I do wonder Kim and would be very interested to hear what others from this board thought about the correlation of stress and MAV too.
Suffice to say, I’m so sorry for all your stress Kim, life sure has it’s way of throwing ‘curve-balls’ our way, doesn’t it, it’s certainly developed my empathy feelings towards others I can say that much!
regards
Judy

My big crash happened after a bad move in a yoga class, but there had been accumulated stress due to work prior. My current set back has been in the context of constant low grade stress.
Stress is a migraine trigger. Why wouldn’t it set things off?
I think there’s a correlation, and I know that currently, in my dizzy state, stress doesn’t help.
What I’m trying to fight is the tendency to retreat when I feel dizzy. If I get out, it’s better, it’s learning how not to push my limit to over the edge…
Kira

I realize I didn’t answer your primary question–were you diagnosed or felt to have panic before migraine. Yes.
I had attacks of vertigo/dizziness for years, and always thought they were anxiety. One morning at work, I suddenly felt very faint, and realized that the room was spinning, my blood pressure was high–not low–and it was vertigo.
When I got very dizzy due to the BPPV incident in 2003, I was waiting in the neuro-otologist’s waiting room, and looked up, felt a spin, and felt my heart start to race, and yet didn’t feel anxious. It’s when I realized that if your body thinks you’re falling, you respond with the “fight or flight” reflex.
For years I would be nauseated in the morning, and just think I was nervous—I was dizzy.
It took a long time to make the connection for me.
So, I think they are linked in so many ways: if vertigo is hallucination of movement–your body responds with an intrinsic fear, and if you have vertigo, you get scared of situations that provoke it. Very difficult cycle to break. When I’m stressed, I get more dizzy, so I get more stressed.
My otologist also told me the explanation for why I get dizzy at work: if you take a dizzy person, make them hold a “tandem gait”–they can do it until you ask them to do a second task requiring concentration–then the balance deteriorates. You expend a lot of mental energy to stay balanced, and you have your limits.
Kira

Kim,

Thanks for bringing this up. Who doesn’t have stress? But different people respond to it in different ways. My entire family (11 sibs) are panic-ers, migraineurs, and now I’m finding out, are dizzy. Our childhood was abusive in the form of extreme neglect/abandonment. I was diagnosed with panic in my 20’s, which co-incided with classical migraines and like you say, the panic was the depersonalization type, not the pounding chest type. The world just got real fuzzy (sound familiar?) and I would lose touch with myself.

My entire family got worse after our youngest sib was killed in a violent car accident. My divorced followed soon after and my health, as a whole started to deteriorate.

My big crash came after a 6 month period of non-stop tremendous stress. I knew I was in trouble when I just wasn’t recovering from it, physically and emotionally. I was exhausted all the time and when the flu season hit - bang!

I’ve stopped trying to think about this in a linear way. (this causes that) I think that my system has taken hits from my major stressors, takes a hit during allergy season, takes a hit during flu season - and those are the times my dizziness is worse. (pretty much covers the entire 12 months, doesn’t it?) My point is, I think pretty much everything that has happened to me up to this time has contributed to my being in this state and I finally crashed. I thought, when it first happened, that I would recover, but it became apparent that I was only on a very fast downhill course and without medical intervention, i shudder to think where I would be right now - shudder!

Julie

Okay my two cents:

Doctors are paid to (among other things) diagnose us. If we have a condition that seems to defy diagnosis (ie its not Menier’s, its not BPPV, etc) they very often make the leap of saying “if I can’t identify a physical problem it must be psychological” and we end up with a diagnosis of “panic attack” or some such thing. Remember MAV is a relatively new diagnosis and many doctors, including specialists, don’t know much about it. So, while I have never had the diagnosis, I believe most of those who have been labeled with “panic attacks” probably have had MAV from the beginning.

I remember one doctors asking me if I felt “panicy” when a dizzy spell occurred. I said somthing like “dude, try walking around with a condition that suddenly makes the room start spinning at random intervals and then tell me that your heart rate doesn’t jump up when this starts to happen at the supermarket”. He dropped it.

With regard to the stress connection: I’ve reluctanctly come around to believing stress is a factor in this. The medication that has probably been most studied and consistently shows the best efficiency as a migrane prophylactic is propranolol (I’m currently taking it with few results but thats neither here nor there). There are many theories as to why propranolol is effective but remember it is a beta blocker - stops the beta receptors in your body from being able to absorb adreneline. Now if you’re walking around in a hyper-stressed state - body constantly exposed to a higher than normal level of adreneline - its not a great leap to think that this could be a factor in the development of migraine. A drug like propranolol that stops your body from absorbing and reacting to this chronically elevated adreneline level could prove very effective in migraine control.

So why isn’t propranolol even more effective than it is? Well remember that stress is just one of many triggers that contribute to migraine. Also, I tend to think that once a migrainous condition develops it tends to be self perpetuating and it takes a lot to get it stopped. This is consistent with the many people that say their condition developed during times of acute stress, but now those stresses are gone and the condition continues to persist.

Chaz

— Begin quote from “Chaz”

I said somthing like “dude, try walking around with a condition that suddenly makes the room start spinning at random intervals and then tell me that your heart rate doesn’t jump up when this starts to happen at the supermarket”.

— End quote

Well put.

I agree that cumulative stress takes a toll and I also agree that migraine, once triggered, tends to self perpetuate. My daughter ended up in the hospital with a status migraine, triggered by the flu, that she experienced as predominantly vertigo. And it lasted for the next 18 months, until the nortriptyline finally kicked in, and/or she had some degree of recovery.

Kira

Here’s a question to ask everyone here. Is there anyone here that considers themselves always to have been a “calm”, relaxed, and easy going person who doesn’t worry easily?? Can anyone here say that their MAV started, suddenly, out of the blue, with no association between a very stressful event in their life and the MAV?? I think it might be revealing to ask your questions in the reverse.

For me, this condition, in my opinion, is directly related to the extreme stress that I was going through for 2 months prior. That’s just me. I also don’t personally think of MAV as really a “condition”, but a set of symptoms resulting from faulty brain chemistry for one reason or another. That’s just my reasoning. To me, MAV is not the cause but the result. Something, in my way of thinking, has to “trigger” it. And I don’t see anyone here complaining that they were perfect, no stress, no life altering situations, and then WHAM!! Most of the stories I read here involved stress as a major trigger.

I think all too often, people think that “psychological” somehow doesn’t mean “real”. That somehow, it just means “all in your head”, or “I can’t figure out what’s wrong with you”. I really don’t think that’s the case although sometimes it CAN be. I personally believe that the way we think, and our chemical make-up (chemical balance), ultimately decides weather MAV can happen or not. Something must trigger a cascade of unknown events in the brain, and these symptoms result from the imbalance. I think one day, doctors will figure out exactly what MAV is and why it happens. But if anyone is looking anywhere else but “the brain”, I think they are looking under the wrong stone. Just my opinion. I realize that doctors don’t know exactly why this happens, but I DO believe that balancing brain chemistry to the best possible degree within scientific knowledge, gives us the best chance at a recovery. If this were not true, anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs would not work on the symptoms of MAV as I see it. But they DO work in most cases. And I think they do because they indirectly (or sometimes directly) work on the underlying cause of the condition - brain chemical imbalance.

I was watching this mystery diagnosis show last night on Multiple Personality Disorder. Nobody knows why this happens, but one thing is clear, it ALWAYS happens in response to a tramatic experience or life altering stress. Sometimes, like MAV, it takes YEARS to get well. But people do eventually get well. But in that process, it’s amazing to see what the brain is actually capable of doing in response to stress. In the case of MPD, the brain actually develops different personalities that live independently of the others. It’s freaky. When one is out, the others don’t remember what’s going on. One guy, named Gary, saw his daughter die on an operating table, and the next morning, woke up as “Mary”, left his family, and for 6 years, lived as a woman. Eventually, he did wake up again as “Gary”, but that was 6 years later, and he had no memory of that entire time. To me, that signifies that the brain is extremely complicated and has multiple ways of dealing with imbalances resulting from stress and anxiety, or a traumatic experience. I don’t see these sorts of things happening to people who are balanced, calm, and relaxed. I just don’t see it. For me, I’m convinced that this all results from chemical imbalances within the brain. Some people may be more suscepitble than others, but this holds true for other conditions as well, and it’s proven that diet, lifestyle changes, and nutrition, can ward off those problems in genetically susceptible individuals as well. I hope I brought these ideas across in the correct way as not to offend anyone who thinks differently :slight_smile:

Rich

I think that’s an excellent question, Rich. However, I think it may be impossible to answer.

Often, (and I do mean often) those who have been hit with the worst of traumas, don’t remember it at all (like the MPD guy you talked about), so would answer - no I’ve not had a stressful life, perfectly happy childhood, etc. Sometimes, possibly many times, people who have been hit by significant stressors cope by intellectualizing and can actually believe, intellectually, that, although they’ve been stressed, they have put it behind them - they are calm, cool and collected. They may have found ways to keep the emotions at bay, such as working, drinking, whatever.

So if someone were to answer your post, I got hit with MAV out of the blue, led a perfectly normal life prior to that, how would we know if that were really true? I would go so far as to muse about whether MAV sometimes may be a result of NOT feeling or dealing with stress fully. (no criticism intended) That might even be the case with me. I was hit with a severe trauma before my big crash. I thought I was really good at processing emotions, but I could feel that this was really too much for my nervous system.

Many people are not so aware. What d’ya think?

Rich…Wow…you made some excellent points and i found everything you said very interesting and it truly makes you wonder if many folks who have been diagnosed with MAV or Migraine Eqivalent have had some severe stress off and on through their life and did not manage it well. But you also have to consider genetics. My mother sufferered from severe depression and anxiety so that can give us more reason to inherit some of these symptoms. I have never been a calm…relaxed person…but i would say that i’m for the most part easy going but a slightly anxious inidivdual. Over the years i have worried way too much about small things and big things. Worrying about what other people thought of me or how good i’m doing at work, etc. I mean most people probably have some of these concerns…but some of us i think it goes to an Extreme and this really messes with the brain chemistry. I personaly believe my child hood stress along with work related stress as an adult either in-directly or directly brought on this condition. It could be just an accumulation (over the years) of worrying and not managing stress very well…and then the body finally reacts to all of it with unusual symptoms. If i would have had a healthy upbringing…a family where there was very little arguing/fighting…no alcoholism and other bad stuff that happened…plus if i were to have just shrugged off the nightmare job experience i had a number of years ago…would i be experiencing MAV right Now? I would say the chances would have been less likely.

Joe

My first post :slight_smile:

For me, it is a huge relief to find the forum. I have not been diagnosed with MVA but I have migraines since I was 6, and they sort of extends into prolonged dizziness about 3 years ago. Went through a lot of test (CT scan, hearing test, ENG, gastroendoscopy, eye test…), all came back normal.

Kim, thanks for mentioning anxiety disorder in the forum. I believe that MVA and anxiety disorder can run in tandem, but it can be frustrating if, like in my case, you are dismissed as being “just anxious” when feeling phisically dizzy.

I stopped looking for treatment was when a neurologist, after examining all my ‘normal’ result, said that “it’s all in your head - you are just anxious and stressed out” and suggested that I see a psychologist instead (doesn’t help that I told him I got more dizzy on supermarket aisles and nearly passed out in a library - he said I may be claustrophobic…). My sister happens to be a psychologist, so I asked her and was convinced that it is not psychological, but I’ve given up seeing doctors by then and decided just to live with it. However, the dizziness keep getting worse so I trawl the net looking for some kind of explanation, and came across this forum when I realised that it may be related to migraine.

About the “chicken and egg” thing - I remembered that although being stressed out make me feel worse, the worst I felt was after I started worrying about being dizzy. Once I decided that I can just try to live with it, it gets a little bit easier (still dizzy, though)…

Hi all
like I said in my earlier post, I’m not sure in my case whether stress caused the manifestation of the disease (but I’d still be open to the idea), I think family genetics is my strongest link there…but I certainly do know that stress is by far my biggest trigger, now I’m suffering from it (MAV). I’m just hoping that the combination of medication, attempting to lower my current stress levels (which I coped with easily in my past), mild exercise and good old fashioned time, will increase my stress limits.

I’d be interested to know your viewpoint on the following: As has always been the case for me, it’s not that my mental disposition renders me unable to cope with the same amount of stress as in the past, it’s my new chemically altered neurological condition which triggers some chemical reaction when my stress levels become raised. This in turn aggravates my condition. Cooking dinner shouldn’t make me dizzy or nauseous and it certainly doesn’t bother me to cook, but the necessary raised anxiety/adrenalin?? levels required to get the job done - changes my chemical balance and causes me to become exactly that…dizzy and nauseous. NOT MUCH FUN!
:oops: regards Judy

Judy,
I can’t cook dinner either, due to the nausea and dizziness. Part of the explanation is the one that my otologist gave me about how tasks requiring concentration will increase dizziness, as we spend so much mental energy on balance.
Although I don’t get headaches, since this last flare, I constantly have low grade migraine stuff going on–sensitive to light/sound/smells–and the constant issue of sensitive to too much visual stimulation.
So, I think that MAV and anxiety are tied together, and that whatever is causing the state leaves you in a constant state of low grade migrainous condition, which stress and other factors will exacerbate.
My husband has been the primary cook in our house for the last couple of years, even when I felt better, because cooking really makes me nauseated.
I completely agree with you that it’s a manifestation of the neurological condition—I’m not stressed about cooking, it’s just unpleasant. Stress does make the symptoms worse and my tolerance for the symptoms lower.
Kira

Judy,

I generally don’t have problems cooking because i keep it fairly simple. Where i would have problems is doing the kind of work for a living that i use to. I worked for the phone company for 20 years and was at a computer taking care of statistical reports and lots of figures, constant phone calls, running check inserting machines, dealing with payroll, etc. I am 100% certain i could never go back to that type of work and or atmosphere. My life has been altered in that i have to keep my life simple. My learning ability also has been affected…it takes me longer to learn new things because my concentration has been affected since the illness has began. Working at a computer all day long would not work because it would more than likely make me more dizzy and disoriented…plus the Stress would aggravate my condition. So things have definitely changed for me.

Joe

— Begin quote from “Rich1975”

Here’s a question to ask everyone here. Is there anyone here that considers themselves always to have been a “calm”, relaxed, and easy going person who doesn’t worry easily?? Can anyone here say that their MAV started, suddenly, out of the blue, with no association between a very stressful event in their life and the MAV?? I think it might be revealing to ask your questions in the reverse.

— End quote

Rich,

I was considered by every one around me a very care free, easy going person before this all started. I always had people telling me that I was so much so that it was annoying. I have always had a lot of the underlying sysmptoms but the inner ear like symptoms did not start until I thought that both my wife and my unborn child were going to pass away in the hospital. It took about a month for everything to escolate to the point that I was almost deaf in one ear, and another month or two for the dizzies to hit.

Rather than edit my entire post below. I’ll just add this for you to read before you read it. Below, is my THEORY into the fundamental cause of MAV based on the books recommended here, my knowledge about brain chemistry, the information provided by the great people of this forum, and my own observations. The information below may appear to come across as “fact”. But surfise it to say that below is just my opinion, and I welcome ALL comments, weather people agree or disagree. I am not looking to “lead” anyone or become an expert on anything. I am simply trying to bring a larger picture to the plate, and I welcome a discussion on it.

— Begin quote from ____

Rich,

I was considered by every one around me a very care free, easy going person before this all started. I always had people telling me that I was so much so that it was annoying. I have always had a lot of the underlying sysmptoms but the inner ear like symptoms did not start until I thought that both my wife and my unborn child were going to pass away in the hospital. It took about a month for everything to escolate to the point that I was almost deaf in one ear, and another month or two for the dizzies to hit.

— End quote

Sorry to hear of your stress, but I am not at all suprised by this anymore, and I think it’s confirmed by what others here are saying as well (weather they are making the connection or not). I think this shows, in at least YOUR case, that it doesn’t necessarily take a life time of stress and anxiety to put our brain chemistry over the edge. It just takes one really stressful event to alter our brain chemistry, or put whatever cascade of events into motion that end up in this set of symptoms we refer to as MAV.

— Begin quote from ____

Kim, thanks for mentioning anxiety disorder in the forum. I believe that MVA and anxiety disorder can run in tandem, but it can be frustrating if, like in my case, you are dismissed as being “just anxious” when feeling phisically dizzy.

I stopped looking for treatment was when a neurologist, after examining all my ‘normal’ result, said that “it’s all in your head - you are just anxious and stressed out” and suggested that I see a psychologist instead (doesn’t help that I told him I got more dizzy on supermarket aisles and nearly passed out in a library - he said I may be claustrophobic…). My sister happens to be a psychologist, so I asked her and was convinced that it is not psychological, but I’ve given up seeing doctors by then and decided just to live with it. However, the dizziness keep getting worse so I trawl the net looking for some kind of explanation, and came across this forum when I realised that it may be related to migraine.

About the “chicken and egg” thing - I remembered that although being stressed out make me feel worse, the worst I felt was after I started worrying about being dizzy. Once I decided that I can just try to live with it, it gets a little bit easier (still dizzy, though)…

— End quote

I decided to also quote this post above, because I think this is may be a major reason why people end up suffering needlessly for longer than they have to. The fact that this person stopped looking for treatment after being told it was “all in your head” does not surprise me. In a way (phyiscal, not psychological), it IS in your head, but not in the way these neurologists are describing it. These doctors are unfortunately not educated in the relationship between stress, anxiety, depression, how it relates to brain chemistry overall, and how that develops into MAV. Or, they DO understand, but instead of explaining this, they just tell people they are stressed out, and to go home. That’s the wrong approach. These doctors should be explaining how stress/anxiety/depression/trauma CAUSES MAV, and how stress/anxiety/depression/trauma in turn WORSENS MAV. Before the MAV hit, the person might have not considered themselves depressed or very anxious, but continued low grade stress and anxiety was present. Then, one stressful event put that person over the edge, and WHAM!! MAV!! After the symptoms hit, that’s usually when the depression and anxiety really become noticeable. At that point, they seek help and are told they are anxious and depressed. The person may argue that they were not depressed or anxious before the MAV hit, and it was the MAV that made them depressed/anxious. That may be somewhat true, but its probably that these triggers were there all along, and once symptoms developed, the anxiety/depression worsened or became more apparent. That confuses the person as well, because they don’t realize what came first, the anxiety/depression or the condition, when in fact, the brain chemistry imabalance is what’s responsible for the onset of symptoms to begin with. The physician may not be aware that anxiety/depression can manifest itself as MAV, or any other number of neurological disorders (or they do, but they believe that the resulting symptoms are “psychological”, instead of “phyiscal”). So when the patient is told it’s “all in their heads”, they are insulted, as they should be, but the connection is never made that the anxiety/depression actually causes a pathway of chemical changes in the brain, resulting in the condition. In other words, people are led to believe that stress/anxiety/depression is merely “pscyhological”, when in fact it is PHYISCAL. I’d even go as far as to say that bad thinking patterns, the racing thoughts people have, and the nervousness, are all an early RESULT of the chemical reactions caused by low-grade every day stress and anxiety that slowly changes brain chemistry, and not the CAUSE. People will try and tell others will stress and anxiety to “relax”, or “try and calm down”. “Take some deep breaths” they say. The problem is, they CAN’T relax, because the anxiety itself is caused by changes in brain chemistry, which can’t simply be turned on and off by “chilling out”.

Here’s another problem that I think makes people doubt some of the anxiety/stress link with MAV. Once their condition hits, initially, their anxiety is increased because of the symptoms. But, after dealing with the symptoms for many months or years, that hightened state of anxiety eventually diminishes back to a “low grade” anxiety, that is, anxiety that is constantly below a detectible level consciously, or in other words, “pre-MAV” anxiety levels. Since the person no longer feels very anxious and stressed, and may in fact also be doing what they consider to be “stress reduction”, they dismiss the connection. “I’m quite relaxed. I haven’t felt any anxiety since bottoming out about a year ago. In fact, I feel a little BETTER emotionally. So why do I still have symptoms? Something else must be going on!” The reason is two-fold, and it’s a cycle…First, the brain chemistry imbalance is quite severe at the point where symptoms first appear. Without treatment, or with the WRONG treatment, brain chemistry continues to be severely imbalanced, or actually worsens as a result of some treatments. The second reason is because the “low-grade” anxiety that was “pre-MAV” is still there, continuing to keep brain chemistry from rebounding and correcting itself over time. I think it’s worth repeating this. If there were little to no connection between anxiety/stress/depression, and MAV, anti-anxiety drugs and anti-depressants would have no effects on the symptoms but they do. And I think people are smart enough and intelligent enough to know the difference between a drug making them feel better “emotionally”, or “physically”. For example, I have heard of people with chronic dizziness complain that their anti-depressant makes them just “not care” about the dizziness, but the dizziness is still there. Then I have heard others say that the drug completely took away their dizziness. I think most people are capable of making the distinction. I am saying this, because I do not believe that the results obtained from anti-anxiety drugs and anti-depressants are purely “psychological”. These drugs have the ablility to correct brain chemistry and reverse the events causing the MAV. However, finding the drug or drug combination is the difficult part.

Anyway, my whole point to this explaination, is to try and get people to understand that just because we are dealing with brain chemistry imbalance largely caused by anxiety/stress and depression (which have causes themselves, such as traumatic life experiences, not sleeping well, stressing over finances. It all adds up, and it all puts a load on the chemistry of the brain until it can’t handle it anymore.), it doesn’t mean that it’s “all in our heads”. These situations cause REAL symptoms by changing chemical balance in the brain. So, the next time your doctor tells you it’s your anxiety, ask them to refer you to someone who understand the relationship between the anxiety and your MAV, and help get you started on meds and other interventions that can restore brain chemistry, and alleviate your symptoms.

Just a little summary of the actions that lead to MAV…

Not enough sleep, worrying about finances, job stress, eating poorly (especially lots of sugar, carbs, and refined foods), traumatic experiences,…these all cause low-grade chemical imbalances in your brain. At first, symptoms are as mild as waking up tired sometimes, or getting a cold easily. Nothing a little extra sleep can’t cure. Over time, these stressors start to cause a low-grade daily anxiety that may or may not be felt by the person. They may have tight muscles, or sit firmly, or constantly crack their necks and other joints, or develop facial ticks. As time moves on, the low-grade anxiety and other life stressors eventually worsen brain chemistry enough to cause the person to display more noticeable symptoms such as “panic”, or constant "racing thoughts. Sometimes people don’t get this far. Sometimes, a specific trauma is all it takes to push brain chemistry beyond a level that the brain can’t rebound. Once brain chemistry is worsened enough, the symptoms can manifest as MAV or any other number of neurological manifestations. These are not seen as true “diseases” because despite the horrible symptoms, the brain chemical imbalance is just that,…an imbalance. The body can go on living quite healthy from a biochemical standpoint, even in the face of this imbalance causing so many horrible symptoms. To show causative relationship here, 99.9% of the time, all testing will be normal. If anything, testing causes more anxiety and worry as most times, nothing is found, or other problems not related to this condition are found, leading the person in the wrong direction of treatment.

To me, all this is GOOD news. Why? Because people can normalize their brain chemistries, even after 20+ years of suffering chemical imbalance. in other words, there is ALWAYS ability to recover imbalanced brain chemistry!! Unfortnately, people with true disease stats of the brain such as MS, Parkinsons’s, and others, have REAL degenerative changes taking place in their brains that are not so easily reversed. With brain/chemical imbalance with no disease states, reversal is ALWAYS possible. Here are some proven ways to help bring your brain chemistry back towards the direction of normality. We still may need the help of medications, but less might be needed to get the desired effect, if we are helping to balance brain chemistry with other means as well:

  1. eliminate all sugar and high-glycemic carbohydrates from your diet. Here is why…these foods elicite a huge insulin response in your body. What is used to counteract the insulin??? CORTISOL!! Cortisol is a stress-hormone. That means, every time you are eating sugar and simple carbs that raise your insulin, you are dumping massive amounts of stress hormones into your blood stream. Cortisol depletes levels of your neurotransmitters, especially dopamine and serotonin. It also depletes estrogen, testosterone, and DHEA, major hormones in your body that help balance your brain chemistry as well.

  2. skipping meals. Skipping meals will cause the same situation.

  3. Imbalanced meals (again, meals too high in high glyemic carbs) - focus around protein, healthy fats, and non-starchy vegetables. They release sugar slowly into your blood stream, which evens out your bodily activities, and ultimately brain chemistry

  4. Go to sleep at the same time every night, and wake up at the same time every day. This balances brain chemistry via the hormormal system.

  5. Get regular exercise that you can tolerate. Find a form that gets your heart-rate up, but doesn’t make you dizzy. Stationary bike, swimming, brisk walking, whatever you can tolerate. Yes, it may make you a bit dizzier, but exercise improves your brain chemistry, and releases endorphins, which help improve your mood on a physical level.

  6. Check your vitamin D level - 25(OHD) is the test that your doctor needs to perform. Vitamin D acts like a hormone in the body. It’s a precurser to serotonin in your brain, and causes a cascade of important events in the body. If you are low, and many people are (including myself), bringing your levels up and improve brain chemistry. My level is so low (nearing zero), that I have to take 5,000IU’s of vitamin D every day and 50,000IU’s once a month. That could be dangerous for people who have high levels or normal levels so testing is necessary. This could be one of the most important tools you take to heal your brain chemistry

  7. If you are woman, balance your hormones!!! You have a great advantage if you are a woman with MAV. Balancing your hormones could cure you!! Your brain chemistry is affected by your hormones more than men and balancing hormones is PROVEN to eliminate migrainous conditions in females.

  8. Re-ogranize your life. This is the part least likely to work, but if you can manage to do it, you can help bring your brain chemistry into balance faster. If you can eliminate the factors that are causing you worry and stress, you are far better off. See professionals for help. For example, if you are having financial problems, see a financial planner or one who can help you get back on track. Anything you can do to reduce or eliminate your burden will be of help. I know this is easier said than done. I have two 17 month old twins, one with a severe medical disability, and so I know all about stresses at home. But it’s important to try.

If you can manage to do all of the above, I guarantee you will be feeling better. I’m already feeling better, although I have a long way to go. Brain chemistry can take years to normalize, but it can and will happen if you persist. I am going to be trying a technique that is perported to naturally return brain chemistry to normal, by changing the distribution of neurotransmitters in the brain. The good news is, it’s not necessary to know what your levels are. It happens naturally. I’m going to create a new post on this as I think this treatment may be of major importance to us. I guess only time will tell. In the meantime, I hope this post helps. :slight_smile:

Rich

P.S I would like to mention that these ideas are already helping ME. I am still dizzy of course, but I am not getting dizzy with every turn of my head like before. I’m even running around the yard with my kids again, although it’s still somewhat difficult and I have to watch how much I do this. I am back to taking care of both my twins all day, going to teach piano, then coming home and helping my wife put them to bed, then making my wife dinner, and going to sleep. 1 month ago, I could not even get through 1 piano lesson without being incredibly exhausted. As long as I eat perfectly every day, Sleep 9-10 hours a night, work “through” my triggers to gain even more compensation, I am doing much better, and I am not even on any meds yet. I was prescribed Elavil, and it’s sitting here, but I am trying to get as far as I can without it first, and then use it when I can make no more gains without. So I wanted to definitely make sure that I told you all that I am getting results. The light sensitivity is still very bad, as well as the feeling that my world is moving around me, BUT, I am FUNCTIONING better with this. Soon, I predict that the symptoms themselves will begin to diminish, then discipate all together. I really hope this post is of help to anyone not sure of the stress/anxiety connection and the symptoms of MAV. If you don’t have a brain chemical imbalance, you can’t have MAV. I think of it like this…if you don’t have cartilage loss, you can’t have arthritis. If you don’t have bone loss, you can’t have osteoporosis. Well, if you don’t have a brain chemical imbalance, you can’t have MAV. I hope this helps :slight_smile:

Rich,
No one on this site proclaims to have the answers to the cause and cure of MAV–except you.
I find myself re-reading your posts, and they are not adding up.
First you posted: On April 12th
I have only displayed symptoms since January 24th 2008. But I am one of those people who gets paranoid about the smallest thing, so I wanted to check EVERYTHING, as I have 2 small kids and a wife to think of, and I am not about to let something major happen to me. Anyway, after all that hoopla, the diagnosis, at this time, is either MAV or Mal De Embark syndrome. Or perhaps both. Some other interesting things were found, but who knows what the relationship is. Anyway, I am just wondering if anyone else here actually suffers from the dizziness and vision problems 24 hours a day like I do, and if so, what are you doing about it! So far, I am just taking a diuretic as I feel pressure in my head and ears, and I’m taking some xanax for anxiety. I have to say that Klonopin seemed to help the feelings of motion, but it made me feel very unambitious and slightly depressed. Also made me very nasty. Tried depakote which made me VERY dizzy, and Neurotin made me exhausted, and did absolutely nothing. I’m really freaked out, and the symptoms have slowly gotten worse over this 2 1/2 month period.

Now, you just read the Buccholz book, immediately adopted the diet, and suddenly are on no meds and: on April 24–12 days later----

would like to mention that these ideas are already helping ME. I am still dizzy of course, but I am not getting dizzy with every turn of my head like before. I’m even running around the yard with my kids again, although it’s still somewhat difficult and I have to watch how much I do this. I am back to taking care of both my twins all day, going to teach piano, then coming home and helping my wife put them to bed, then making my wife dinner, and going to sleep. 1 month ago, I could not even get through 1 piano lesson without being incredibly exhausted. As long as I eat perfectly every day, Sleep 9-10 hours a night, work “through” my triggers to gain even more compensation, I am doing much better, and I am not even on any meds yet. I was prescribed Elavil, and it’s sitting here, but I am trying to get as far as I can without it first, and then use it when I can make no more gains without. So I wanted to definitely make sure that I told you all that I am getting results. The light sensitivity is still very bad, as well as the feeling that my world is moving around me, BUT, I am FUNCTIONING better with this. Soon, I predict that the symptoms themselves will begin to diminish, then discipate all together. I really hope this post is of help to anyone not sure of the stress/anxiety connection and the symptoms of MAV. If you don’t have a brain chemical imbalance, you can’t have MAV. I think of it like this…if you don’t have cartilage loss, you can’t have arthritis. If you don’t have bone loss, you can’t have osteoporosis. Well, if you don’t have a brain chemical imbalance, you can’t have MAV. I hope this helps
So,
Within the space of a couple of weeks, you’ve gone from multiple meds and no knowledge of what was wrong with you, to being able to tell us the cause and treatment of MAV. You’ve gone from multiple medications to none, and you have it all figured out.
The ground rules of this forum is that we don’t give medical advice.
Believe me, I’ve researched this condition and I firmly believe that there is no simple answer or explanation, and definitely “one size doesn’t fit all”.
So, please stop writing as though you are giving expert advice–
Your story and your timeline and your absolute knowledge don’t add up.
Kira

Kira, I deleted by long response to you. I’ll simply say this…if you take issue with the CONTENT of what I typed above, please, by all means, explain this in detail. You claim to have researched the condition. Please explain why you feel that MAV is caused by something OTHER than a brain chemical imbalance.

Rich

Rich
There’s one thing I’ve learned from my two year experience with MAV, THERE AIN’T NO QUICK FIXES!!! I don’t think there’s a soul who’s currently visiting this board, who hasn’t tried every well researched theory/med around. Most of us, you will find have also visited **THE BEST **authorities in this specific field and with the information shared by the benefit of our experience have also engaged our neurologists/neuro-otologists with healthy debate to the benefit of our INDIVIDUAL treatment, it’s certainly not a ‘one-stop-quick-fix shop’ If it were that simple, there would no longer be a single migraine sufferer around. Shared information regarding publications, personal experience of medications taken etc - both good and bad help to form our own, very individual interpretation of the condition and that only helps to aid further debate amongst our fellow sufferers whilst at the same time never professing to have the complete knowledge or expertise to interpret for us. Our own medical practitioners are well qualified to do that. All we seek to do on this forum is to exchange our experiences both good and bad, form through each others experiences, our own personal preferences and directions we wish to follow and most importantly support each other through this most trying time. You cannot quantify how long each of us will be stuck suffering our own very individual symptoms and it is not a case of following a quick list of instructions and have an expectation that you will be cured. It would be absurd to think that we haven’t already tried a number of avenues, and even more absurd to think that we may be suffering lengthy illnesses if we need not! I appreciate your contribution and your effort to share knowledge but you must be mindful that you don’t sound more like you are lecturing people.
regards Judy

Come on now, did he really write about a one-size-fits-all solution? I don’t see it. I see a collection of tips that could help out. I don’t know about you, but I’ve only known about MAV since christmas (even though I’ve had it longer), and for sure, there are some good tips in there - that are pretty darn medically accepted, too.

I also don’t see him “proclaiming to have the cause and answer”. I see theories.