Stress, Panic, Anxiety

[kira]

Most neurologists caution against daily nonsteroidals (motrin/aleve) for the potential to cause rebound. Yet, for children, naprosyn is listed as a possible preventive.
So, the jury is out if they can contribute to rebound.
Larry Robbins:
headachedrugs.com/
“Rebound (Withdrawal) Headache
Rebound occurs when a drug is used, or overused, and causes a headache later
on, or the next day. The medicines that contain higher amounts of caffeine (such
as Excedrin) are more likely to induce rebound. This is a murky area, as many
patients are told that they have rebound when it is just their natural headache
pattern. Some people have rebound from small amounts of caffeine, while others
have no rebound from high caffeine doses.
Avariety of meds may cause rebound: Nsaids (Ibuprofen, Advil, Naproxen, Aleve),
Excedrin, Butalbital (Fiorinal, Esgic), Opioids (Vicodin, Codeine), and Triptans
(Imitrex, Maxalt, Zomig, etc.). If a patient usually does not get a headache the 2nd
day, and subsequently has a 2nd day headache after taking a drug, it may be from
that medication. Or some people have 2 days / week of headache, go on a new
abortive med., and within months have daily (or near daily) headaches; we then
think about rebound.
…
The bottom line is: we do not know who gets rebound, and from which drugs. It is
very individual, case by case situation. Practically, what we attempt to do, if
possible, is minimize abortives.”

Then, under first line preventives for migraine:
“5. Naproxen (Naprosyn, Naprelan, Anaprox, Aleve), and other nsaids: Useful in
younger patients, once a day dosing. Sometimes helpful for daily headaches.
Particularly useful for menstrual migraine. Nonsedating, but frequent GI upset.
Effective as an abortive, and may be combined with other first line preventive
medications. The usual dose is 500 or 550 mg. once a day, but this may be
pushed to twice a day. OTC as Aleve. Other anti-inflammatories can be
utilized for prevention of migraine. As with all anti-inflammatories, GI side effects
increase as people age, and so we use these much more in the younger
population.”

Who knows.
I do know my daughter took daily motrin when she was having rough times, and now it’s just the rare dose, and she’s much better. All non-steroidals are hard on stomachs and kidneys.

As we’ve seen, there’s always controversy, even in the same textbook.
Kira

[system]

And we’re talking about rebound headaches, because that’s what Kim was addressing. But I’m still wondering (not taking into account the GI and kidney issues - other meds I’m taking are hard on those and other systems) if it might be useful as a daily preventative for a person suffering with dizziness but no headache, as it seems that anecdotally it is helpful - and I’ll take any help I can get.

It’s hard to know what to do when there is so much disagreement among the specialists. Maybe, once I’m not tweaking other meds, I’ll just try it and see what happens.

P.S. I’ve been taking Synthroid for two weeks due to a borderline high TSH (I decided to seek the advice of an endocrinologist because when I first started researching this dizzy thing, most things I read listed hypothyroidism as a main cause of dizziness). My energy is increased. The dizziness is hard to judge because of the pollen, but my guess is that it is also better (we had much less pollen today and I am feeling surprisingly well). Cooked all day, went for an even longer walk, and no harm done. And get this - I forgot to take my mid day Klonopin. I may forget where my glasses are when I’ve got them right on my face, but I have never forgotten to take my Klonopin - it brings me pretty quick relief. I think that says a lot right there. I talked to a sister last night who I hadn’t talked to in about a month - she couldn’t believe all the things I’ve been doing since we last spoke, and just how happy and alive I sounded. When you live with it everyday, and all you do is watch your symptoms, it’s hard to know how much change there has actually been, if any. It’s good to get some feedback from an outsider.

[Heather]

— Begin quote from ____

If you don’t have a brain chemical imbalance, you can’t have MAV. I think of it like this…if you don’t have cartilage loss, you can’t have arthritis. If you don’t have bone loss, you can’t have osteoporosis. Well, if you don’t have a brain chemical imbalance, you can’t have MAV. I hope this helps

— End quote

I find the claim frightening and without merit.
I do find this more plausible:

“WHAT CAUSES MIGRAINE ? Migraines are generally thought to be caused by a chemical abnormality in the brain due to a combination of familial tendency, trigger factors such as stress, sleep disturbance, hormonal fluctuations, and certain foods. While in the past Migraine was felt to be related to vasospasm, presently it is thought that the blood flow changes are not primary. Instead, it is felt that Migraine is related to abnormal sensitivity to sensory inputs (Goadsby PJ, 2001). Nevertheless, there is recent evidence in the other direction – migraine is associated with a mutation in a gene that controls a potent vasoconstrictor (Tzourio et al, 2001)”

I agree with the sensitivity to sensory input, BIG TIME. That does not mean “chemical abnormality” in my book.
Excerpt from Tim Haine’s website.

[Tranquillity]

— Begin quote from “Heather”

— Begin quote from ____

If you don’t have a brain chemical imbalance, you can’t have MAV. I think of it like this…if you don’t have cartilage loss, you can’t have arthritis. If you don’t have bone loss, you can’t have osteoporosis. Well, if you don’t have a brain chemical imbalance, you can’t have MAV. I hope this helps

— End quote

I find the claim frightening and without merit.
I do find this more plausible:

“WHAT CAUSES MIGRAINE ? Migraines are generally thought to be caused by a chemical abnormality in the brain due to a combination of familial tendency, trigger factors such as stress, sleep disturbance, hormonal fluctuations, and certain foods. While in the past Migraine was felt to be related to vasospasm, presently it is thought that the blood flow changes are not primary. Instead, it is felt that Migraine is related to abnormal sensitivity to sensory inputs (Goadsby PJ, 2001). Nevertheless, there is recent evidence in the other direction – migraine is associated with a mutation in a gene that controls a potent vasoconstrictor (Tzourio et al, 2001)”

I agree with the sensitivity to sensory input, BIG TIME. That does not mean “chemical abnormality” in my book.
Excerpt from Tim Haine’s website.

— End quote

But… Your Hain quote says “Migraines are generally thought to be caused by a chemical abnormality in the brain” as the first paragraph.

[Heather]

“Generally thought” leads into “Instead” as in: Instead, it is felt that Migraine is related to abnormal sensitivity to sensory inputs.

Actually I agree with a neurologist I met who showed me a diagram of what is called: a hypersensitive nervous system.
One of the offshoots in the diagram was of course migraines, but also sensitivity to light, sound, motion, odor, temperature etc.
It also includes: drug sensitivity, insomnia, and anxiety. Just to mention a few.
But at this time in my life, I didn’t need to see a diagram to know my nervous system is hypersensitive. :shock:

Heather

[system]

Heather,

I thought I was the most sensitive person on the planet, but you may have me out-matched. I had to cut 25 mg Zoloft into 8ths in order to tolerate them and still got sick during the titration (even some hallucinations) I did the same when somebody talked me into taking antivert - cut it into 8ths and still landed in bed, sicker than i was before I took it. The first Klonopin i took was .25 mg - put me right to sleep. When i increased to .5, it did the same thing. It also made my body feel unsteady in the way you described, for a few weeks, but the relief of dizziness was worth it to me and in time that sensation went away.

Because of this sensitivity, which goes beyond the medicinal, I have been drug-free until now, my 54th year.

But that experience of yours within the MRI machine! although if I hadn’t been doped up on Valium, who knows.

I told my husband for a year, it feels like my entire nervous system is on overload - even my teeth and face hurt (like trigeminal neuralgia), my sciatic nerve was on fire (it’s not now). And emotionally I was practically hysterical much of the time.

best of luck, glad you found this forum, anyway,

Julie

[Heather]

— Begin quote from “Julie”

The first Klonopin i took was .25 mg - put me right to sleep.
When i increased to .5, it did the same thing. It also made my body feel unsteady in the way you described, for a few weeks, but the relief of dizziness was worth it to me and in time that sensation went away.

But that experience of yours within the MRI machine! although if I hadn’t been doped up on Valium, who knows.
best of luck, glad you found this forum, anyway,

— End quote

I started trying .125 of Klon. What a weenie eh? Even that small dose put me to sleep. But that was brand name. I think brand is more potent than generic. JMO.
I use anywhere between .25 and .50 at night now. Usually .25 (As a matter of fact just took .25 a half hour ago)

The MRI incident knocked me for a loop and I have no explanation. I now fear something I have never feared. MRI machines!
I was literally, out of it. All I know is I knew it the instant it happened.
I had my eyes shut, (may have been the problem) and when that vibration started like a jackhammer behind my neck and head, man I was a goner.
It’s like my body was floating and I was screwed in the head.
I was wondering if I now have an injury to a cervical nerve? All I know is I’ve never been the same since.
I told the story to an optometrist who said the damndest thing about it. He said “I wonder if it was the electromagnetic energy?”
I said, “HUH?” His comment caught me off guard. I’m thinking injury and he’s thinking energy? Ever hear of anyone being affected by an MRI’s electromag energy?
A MRI tech told me there is a coil that sat right under my neck and head. See if I ever get in a GE MRI machine again. And that machine was supposedly their “newest.”
Sheesh, give me an old one then!

Leave it to me to get the 1% range incidents. Story of my life.

Wonderful meeting you Julie. It stinks why we’re all here, but you all are great.

Heather

[jennyd]

Hi Heather,
A while ago a friend of a friend was living in Singapore,
She started having mal de debarquement symptoms (rocking ect)
Which never left her, so her husband sent her back home to English countryside, where she stayed for 4 weeks after a week her symptoms subsided. No TV ect only the country side.
She went back to Singapore and after again started rocking
It was back again; she said she personally believed it was all due to electric magnetic field around the city where she lived in Singapore.
Sounds weird but stranger things have happened.
Go have a look here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_sensitivity

[jennyd]

also, as I get carried away with myself , here is something of on scala waves being used by the soviets, as a weapon.
so there is no doubt it’s possible.
after My Mri my dog wouldnt come near me for 24 hours, which is unhead of,
she will normaly come running to the door.
sorry Ive edited this page again to put this in,

1. Exposure to a static magnetic field
   The FDA guideline is that magnetic fields up to and including 8 Tesla pose no significant
   risk. The limit of 8 Tesla is based not on known risks at higher field, but rather simply a
   lack of long-term data at those fields. Such higher field studies are underway at a few
   institutions. The Center’s 3T magnetic fields are within the guidelines provided by the
   United States food and Drug Administration for clinical imaging and fall within the
   category of no significant risk. In high magnetic fields, rapid motion of the head can
   cause dizziness, vertigo, nausea, or a metallic taste. For this reason, the scanner bed
   moves slowly into the magnet bore and the subject is encouraged to remain still while in
   the region of the static magnetic field. The Operator will insure that rapid movements on
   the subject’s part are minimized as the subject enters and exits the vicinity of the
   magnet. During the scanning, head motion is restrained by padding inserted between
   the subject’s head and the head RF coil or other similar support. GE magnet sites often
   distinguish a Security Zone, defined by magnet room and its walls, from an Exclusion
   Zone defined by the five gauss line, which might extend beyond the magnet room. At
   the Center the 5 gauss line is inside the magnet room so that the Security and
   Exclusion Zones are the same. No pacemakers, metallic implants, neurostimulators, or
   loose metal objects are permitted inside the magnet room unless authorized by fMRI
   jen Hehe.

rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/ar … read=56018
also niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/emf/

[Heather]

— Begin quote from “jennyd”

In high magnetic fields, rapid motion of the head can
cause dizziness, vertigo, nausea, or a metallic taste. For this reason, the scanner bed
moves slowly into the magnet bore and the subject is encouraged to remain still while in
the region of the static magnetic field. The Operator will insure that rapid movements on
the subject’s part are minimized as the subject enters and exits the vicinity of the
magnet. During the scanning, head motion is restrained by padding inserted between
the subject’s head and the head RF coil or other similar support.

— End quote

Yes there was padding between the head and coil, but the head motion
was NOT restrained in my machine.
I felt like I had a jackhammer under my neck and head and that’s
when all hell broke loose. If anything, the machine added head motion.

Afterwards I also had a DVT ultrasound scheduled (unfortunately!) and she kept telling me
to lay down flat and I yelled NO! The back of my head and neck were like a slinky and I
was propping myself up with my elbows on the padded table.
I should have let them call me an ambulance when they asked me, because then I could have gotten it on formal
record. I was so out of it, I didn’t even say to anyone the machine jackhammered my neck and head.

That was back in January. I had a Sinus CT a few weeks ago, and that same weird feeling happened
when I was conveyed in and out. When it was over (It only take about a minute) I couldn’t even get up
on my own since my head was so heavy.

Now I blame chronic sinusitis but a recent ENT now blames inner ear for the heaviness in my head.
I am so tired of the double-talk I could scream.
What bothers me is lately I have noticed that the sound of my own voice is vibrating in my skull.
If I have a long conversation or raise my voice, I start to feel whacked in the head. All sounds seem louder than normal.
Scared the hell out of me when it started. Possible Tulio’s phenomenon, not sure.
I talk less these days.

Heather