The Up and Downs of the MAV roller coaster

Hello -

I’m feeling frustrated because I had two great days (Thursday and Friday) and today stunk. I totally enjoyed my virtually symptom free days and feel THANKFUL to have had them, since they are so few and far between. It’s just that every time I have a good spell, whether it’s a few hours or a couple of days, there is this part of me that is clicking my heels together saying, “hooray! Just maybe we’re done with this freaky thing!” And the disappointment when it comes back is such a bummer. My dad said to me recently, “You know Molly, I just know that some days I feel better than other days. They aren’t all perfect.” It’s so hard for me to remember what normal even feels like. When I am at a D2 as I call it (Dizzy 2 on the scale from one to 10) I am completely thrilled. It’s my new “good day.” I can’t remember what it feels like to be totally dizzy free.

From where I sit, all variables are the same for me from day to day. I eat the same. I basically sleep the same. My stress level usually remains pretty much at the same level. I drink the same amount of water. So i just can’t point to any triggers. Maybe it’s hormones, which makes we ask if I should look at oral contraception.

I’ve been upping my visits to the acupuncturist since my diagnosis, now that I know what this is, and I’ve been hoping that it would “cure” me. I went twice this week and so I thought maybe I was “fixed” because of my great Thursday and Friday. I know everyone here knows what I"m talking about. The fantasy of a miracle. That one morning I’ll wake up not fearing how quickly I move my head or fearing the brightness of the sun. I’ve hoped so much to do this without medication. Somehow I felt like when I got the diagnosis, I’d just get better. That somehow just finally knowing that I wasn’t dying from some mysterious brain disease which would leave my children motherless, would cure me. I’m sure this sounds crazy to think that. I’ve done so much that is holistic in order to combat this. We’ve spent a fortune and so I guess it’s time to try the drugs. I’ve become such a pharmaceutical cynic - to my detriment.

I am rambling. I just had to put out how I’m feeling to all of you who understand this roller coaster ride. I so appreciate you listening.

Best,

Molly

Hi Molly

I completely understand what you are going through. When I have a good day or even a good hour, the optimist in me gets really excited and I start planning what I am going to do when I am better, then when I start feeling bad again I feel really crushed. I try to stay on a more even keel emotionally but it is hard to do.

I have researched into the hormone thing and from what I’ve read, most researchers seem to think that the contraceptive pill makes migraine worse. But then others say it can make it better for some people. I suppose its just a case of trying what feels right for you.

I wouldn’t worry about trying pharmaceutical drugs, life’s too short not to. I was worried at first but now I push the worries to the back of my mind - I’d rather feel well and be on medication than feel ill and not be on medication.

Becky

— Begin quote from “Beech19”

I wouldn’t worry about trying pharmaceutical drugs, life’s too short not to. I was worried at first but now I push the worries to the back of my mind - I’d rather feel well and be on medication than feel ill and not be on medication.

Becky

— End quote

Before MAV i wouldn’t even take aspirin. i despise meds and the burden they put on the body’s systems. It took me six months to talk my husband into taking BP medication for the same reasons. But as Becky says, “life’s too short.” I would add, for myself at least that I was in dire straits, i needed to do something or I would have died in that bed, unable to even eat. Taking treatment was the best decision I ever made. I had my labs checked six months following treatment and so far no changes. Of course i wonder to myself, what if my meds do start to mess with my labs? i don’t even want to go there.

You’ve been a brave soul, Molly, to live with this thing with no medication. And for some people this thing, as your Dad says, this thing does seem to fluctuate for no obvious reason (not so me for).

You’ll know when it’s time. I just want to tell you my experience, I wish, with all my heart, that I hadn’t waited so long. If I had sought treatment before my horrendous crash, when all i had was a little rocking, a much smaller dose of medication may have done the trick, instead of 4 meds which, at this point, maybe never take care of the entire thing completely - I waited way too long.

Julie

Thanks guys -

I started last night with a quarter of the Topamax and definitely feel wacky today. How could i be such a light weight? But I’m going forward - I mean, it’s normal to feel weird when you start a new med right?

Life is too short to feel crappy. I remember trying to avoid taking antidepressants for so long. And when I found the one that worked for me, I thought, “Now why in the hell did I resist taking this for so long? I feel great now!” note to self… Meds can make you feel better.

Thanks again -

Molly

let us know what you mean by wacky, Molly

I feel spacier, like i’m on cold medicine. I don’t feel very connected to myself and concentration is proving to be difficult… Although, that happens a lot anyway - a little more today. I just feel really out of it.

i PMd you Molly, i’m going to PM you again - J

Molly, in case you’re getting to the forum more quickly than your PMs, let me just post it here:

Topamax is the trickiest drug. i use three resources to find my information - Dr. Hain, epocrates.com and crazymeds.us

Dr. Hain would say that if you are having cognitive difficulties, you should cut your dose down further.

crazymeds - which is a forum of people who take a lot of neurologic/psychiatric drugs, say that Topamax is extremely dose specific. It can give you SEs if you’re at too LOW a dose or too HIGH a dose!

So what are you to do? If you were to follow Hain’s instructions, he would have you use a nail file and go down further on that titration.

If you were a crazymeds follower you would continue your titration and hope that this would go away as you continue your upward titration and hit your “sweet spot” as they call it. They’ve all been successful with this method, but they have no choice, they are often seizing, and have to take their med.

There have been others on this board who have felt like you and couldn’t stand it and quit and i can’t blame them one bit. If i had taken one itsy piece of that pill and felt so bad i’m not sure what i would have done.

I’m glad i had better luck, and i was praying that you would have also,

Julie

Molly,

I completely understand the frustration. I can go several days to several weeks without a “dizzy spell” and I start to forget that I have to watch almost everything I do. I’m not talking about all of the little things that I have done to change my life to avoid the dizzy spells, but instead all of the little things that I have taught myself to keep myself safe when I am experiencing a “dizzy spell.” I basically drop my guard. Then when I do get hit by a dizzy spell I have a harder time doing things differently to get through my day, or I am unprepared and get hit by a dizzy spell in the middle of doing something that I can’t possibly do with the room rocking back and forth. In a nut shell, it is like the farther I go between dizzyspells, the tougher it is for me to compensate for the all the balance issues.

Brian

Hi,
Has any one had experience with nortriptyline. Dtr. just prescibe it.
I’m afraid to take anything…especially because I’m alone with a 2 yr. old
all day.
Does any one else have small children in their care?
My poor little one sees my crying and confused to often…
I feel terrible for her…I try to keep up the pace with her.
But often find myself exausted and it is difficult to do alot of
tasks…how does others cope or concure these challenges??
Mornings are especially hard. I wake feeling nasuase, tense and confused.
Afraid to move to quickly and can’t grasp on to doing the most mundane things…
like pouring a glass of milk etc…
Any feed back or advise would be greatly appreciated.
Kathleen

Hi Kathleen-

I’m sorry, but I can’t help you with the Nortriptalyne.

When I had my big “crash” before I was diagnosed with MAV, I was a single parent, working more than 12 hours a day. I can definitely relate to you. It was the absolute worst time of my life. I felt very isolated, and totally helpless, yet I had a young daughter that had just started kindergarten. I was all she had. I couldn’t take care of myself, let alone her. Looking back, I don’t really know how I made it through, but I did.

I depended alot on my sister during those days. Kathleen, I’ll be honest. I had to depend on others, for a time. It wasn’t a very long time though, because once I started going from doctor to doctor, and test after test, nothing was showing up. I got mad. I got so FREAKING mad. I fought. I couldn’t believe how unfair it was, and not only that, NOBODY could give me a straight up answer as to why I could barely walk up-right, let alone lay down in bed without the room spinning out of control. I remember standing in my kitchen in my pj’s making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for my daughter’s lunch, with tears streaming down my face, thinking “Why is this happening and when will it end? It’s just NOT FAIR”. I remember watching my sister come over and pick her up for school, so I could go back to bed. It was all SO wrong. I was missing out, my daughter was missing out, and my sister wasn’t enjoying any of it very much. I kept doctor-hopping, and once I got a diagnosis, because nobody seemed to know very much about it, I knew I was the only one that was gonna be able to save me.

My neurologist wanted to put me on an antidepressant, but I talked him into propanolol. I had been on it in my early 20’s (for what they then called “panic attacks”, and I felt safe with it), I changed my diet and started taking supplements. Finding this forum was the best thing I ever did.

Kathleen, I know what its like to be sick with small children. If its any help at all, my daughter saw me at my weakest times, and although it was so unfair to her, she is ok. I didn’t do any damage to her. Really. Children are so resilient. You will get better, and your kids will be ok too. Just don’t give up. Do your homework on the meds. If you’re not comfortable with one med, there are endless others. (See previous posts)

I don’t know if any of this helps you at all, I hope it does. Please, if you have specific questions, don’t be afraid to ask them here. Thats why we are here.

Kim

Hi Kathleen,

I am so sorry you are having a hard time and having to take care of a 2 year old. I know how you feel. I have a two and a half and a four and a half year old. Taking care of them has been such a challenge and I’ve had such guilt about all the things I haven’t been able to do with them. I made cookies with them in June during one of my good stints, and I wrote it down on my calendar because it had been so long since I’d done something fun like that. The parent I’ve always dreamed of being, and the parent I’m capable of being right now, are very different. Just like Kim said, I have to get help - more than I care to ask for. I’m lucky to have my husband helping me out when he can, but many times, it’s just me and my children and I"m watching the clock until I can go to bed for the night so I won’t have to know how dizzy i feel. Thankfully they are back in Mother’s Day OUt now - do you have help at all? When I get some down time in the middle of the day to lie down and close my eyes, it really helps me.

I’d love to write more. Brian, I wanted to comment on your post as well, but all of a sudden my eyes are starting to be bothered by the computer screen. so I have to scoot.

Take care -

Molly

Molly & Kim,

Thank you both for the replies…it ment alot to me.
While reading them it brought tears to my eyes…
I can’t even believe there are others that feel so awful and frieghtened.
I don’t have any one to help me…my family are all distant and my Mom is
very old and not well…I had my little darling very late in life…
I can barely make it through most days…
She’s climbing on me while I’m trying to type on lap top now and can’t write…’
Thank You so much for just being there any advise or information that helps
will be deeply appreciated…

Kathleen

1 Like

— Begin quote from “Molly”

Hello -

I’m feeling frustrated because I had two great days (Thursday and Friday) and today stunk. I totally enjoyed my virtually symptom free days and feel THANKFUL to have had them, since they are so few and far between. It’s just that every time I have a good spell, whether it’s a few hours or a couple of days, there is this part of me that is clicking my heels together saying, “hooray! Just maybe we’re done with this freaky thing!” And the disappointment when it comes back is such a bummer. My dad said to me recently, “You know Molly, I just know that some days I feel better than other days. They aren’t all perfect.” It’s so hard for me to remember what normal even feels like. When I am at a D2 as I call it (Dizzy 2 on the scale from one to 10) I am completely thrilled. It’s my new “good day.” I can’t remember what it feels like to be totally dizzy free.

From where I sit, all variables are the same for me from day to day. I eat the same. I basically sleep the same. My stress level usually remains pretty much at the same level. I drink the same amount of water. So i just can’t point to any triggers. Maybe it’s hormones, which makes we ask if I should look at oral contraception.

I’ve been upping my visits to the acupuncturist since my diagnosis, now that I know what this is, and I’ve been hoping that it would “cure” me. I went twice this week and so I thought maybe I was “fixed” because of my great Thursday and Friday. I know everyone here knows what I"m talking about. The fantasy of a miracle. That one morning I’ll wake up not fearing how quickly I move my head or fearing the brightness of the sun. I’ve hoped so much to do this without medication. Somehow I felt like when I got the diagnosis, I’d just get better. That somehow just finally knowing that I wasn’t dying from some mysterious brain disease which would leave my children motherless, would cure me. I’m sure this sounds crazy to think that. I’ve done so much that is holistic in order to combat this. We’ve spent a fortune and so I guess it’s time to try the drugs. I’ve become such a pharmaceutical cynic - to my detriment.

I am rambling. I just had to put out how I’m feeling to all of you who understand this roller coaster ride. I so appreciate you listening.

Best,

Molly

— End quote

Roller coaster is a real good way to put it. For the first few years (initially diagnosed with Meniere’s in early 2005), it was real frustrating. Kept trying all sorts of different things, had some breakthroughs, then went back a few steps. Had some fairly significant breakthroughs last year after an MAV diagnosis in August 2007, some more progress early this year, then some setbacks. Kept trying different things. Went through a few docs.

Hit my stride in a big way a few months ago with a new doc. Getting very, very close to complete, steady remission. For me, it’s a combination of a superb doc adjusting some things in my treatment program, a great physical therapist who seems to know more about this ailment than a lot of doctors, and continuous experimentation with diet.

To be sure, it’s noteworthy that I’m kind of a “hybrid” case. It’s a combination of MAV (primary diagnosis) and Meniere’s (this was my initial, solitary diagnosis in 2005, but was re-confirmed last month along with MAV after further testing…SCD and fistula were suspected, but ruled out) mixed with a palatal myoclonus and some cervical vertigo.

Thinking back to early 2005, I tried the following before for a year or two before really hitting a steady stride this year:

Basic Salt restriction and valium for Meniere’s
Acupuncture
Herbs & Teas
Craniosacral
Ear tube insertion & Meniett
Vestibular Rehabiliation Therapy

In 2007, tried verapamil and Serc for a while. Kept using valium…which was always helpful. Dropped the Serc completely after a few months. Verapamil worked real well, mixed in with adjustments in diet. Upped the verapamil dosage…realized further progress…but then ran into some setbacks in early 2008.

Now, I think the progress is mostly attributable to **physical therapy **(my new doc referred me), keeping the same verapamil dosage, mixing in low dose effexor (no side effects for me), continuing with low doses of valium (I’m sometimes off of valium for 5 to 6 days at a time…don’t need it as much), and keeping to a very strict diet regimen.

I could not work full-time until this year. Now, 40-45 hours isn’t a problem. I just went through a 7 day stretch of work without a break this past week without significant issues.

Running about 60-65 miles per month (couldn’t run until last year…and it was limited), and doing about 5,000 to 6,000 crunches per month plus some stationary bike work and light weights. It’s a huge, huge relief.

One gadfly on the horizon is the change in weather sometime in late October. Weather is a big, big trigger for, but I’m not nearly as aprehensive about the winter this year than before. I experienced incremental improvement from 2005 - 2007, thus it should be even better this year.

Hang in there. The roller coaster can be a daunting, frustrating, and debilitating challenge, but the possibility of smoothing out definitely exists.

Hi Molly,
Sorry I’ve been away from the Mav site for a couple of days.
Molly, the topa could make you feel funny at first, and might stay that way for a while.
I had that in the beginning I found a little weird spiciness going on ect…
And with most psychopharmacological meds it will take time to adjust.
How are things going now, has anything settled a bit?
and Molly , I was like Julie , I never took pain meds either, unless I absolutley had to.
I’ve tried chiropracty , 6 months with a proffessor of chiro and family friend, with no results.
Ive had acupunture, 3 months with no results.
vitamins and minerals and diet were the only things that helped a bit.
but my mav is very very bad , it wasnt the vertigo that was so bad ,but the other stuff.
constant altered states of consciousness, that was my killer in mav.
so it wasnt just a matter of having slight symptoms every now and then, it was 24/7 for me.
I dont have a chioce as to whether I should just keep trying natural med or not.
oh molly I hope this topa works for you.

((((hugs)))) jen

Hi Kathleen.

My Mav started when my daughter was 8 years old,
We had just flown to china for a years contract, working 6 nights a week.
My daughter was to have a nanny at nights and distance education during the day, which my husband and I would watch over her as she did it,
We would post it back to Australia for marking and they would post back her next semester ect…
We ended up hiring her a teacher as well, because I was too sick and hubby thought it was better for her education.

In general her days were to be spent with us traveling around shang hia country side and getting to know the locals ect…
What a big mistake that was!
I ended up practically bed ridden.
I cried my days away and panicked my nights away on stage,
Wondering what the hell had happened.
I did think was I dying, no Dr’s could tell me what I had. To be honest I thought Id had a mini stroke on that plane.

So my poor darling daughter sat in china with a mum that was completely useless for a whole year. They gave our passports back when our contract was over, we left and came home only to be told by Dr’s in my own country, the same thing, “we don’t know what it is”,
Until I found Neuro who wrongly diagnosed me with MDds,
and sent me home with no meds, saying this will go when you brain re-adjusts.

I eventually had to put myself on antidepressants so I could get on with life.
As Kim say’s its amazing how durable children can be, they just get on with it!!
My daughter said she doesn’t feel like she missed out on things because of my mav.
but then she’s always been an old soul.

Deep in my heart, I feel so angry at how much I felt it took away, from my mothering.
My daughter and I are very close, she’s 23 now.
She’s moving home next week.
She loves her mum.

try not to beat yourself up Kathleen.

what great replies from you Jen and you MSDXD.

Both of you helped me feel so much more hopeful about everything. Thanks for taking the time to share. It means a great deal.

MSDXD - please tell me more about your physical therapy experience. I’ve done some and didn’t have any lasting results. Any way you could give me an idea of what you are doing in physical therapy?

Thanks -
MOlly

Oh sorry Molly yes physical therapy?
as soon as my physical therapist found out I had mav she said o well we wont continue until your mav is under controll, I asked why and she said, because everytime your migraine happens again your will just lose everything your brain has just learned to compensate on.
the migraine happens again the BANG! its all back.
I also did physical therapy 3 months no change

jen

— Begin quote from “Molly”

what great replies from you Jen and you MSDXD.

Both of you helped me feel so much more hopeful about everything. Thanks for taking the time to share. It means a great deal.

MSDXD - please tell me more about your physical therapy experience. I’ve done some and didn’t have any lasting results. Any way you could give me an idea of what you are doing in physical therapy?

Thanks -
MOlly

— End quote

Sent you a PM a few minutes ago regarding P.T.

Dear MXDSD

thank you for posting your story, it gives me hope. And you had success on two drugs I haven’t tried yet! I am printing off your story and glueing it in a scrapbook I keep to give me hope through this.

Becky

oh Becky,

what a great idea. A scrap book. Aren’t some of these stories incredible! And sadder than you could ever imagine? When i first joined this forum i was so humbled after reading the Post Your Stories Here thread. I thought my story was bad and then i read on, and on, and on and realized how many others were suffering, for longer and for worse.

Keeping a scrap book is a great idea to keep everybody straight, what their story is, and what has helped them.

Becky you add so much to this forum, I’m so glad you’re here,

Julie