MAV'ers triggered by computer use -- your advice needed!

scott · August 13, 2013, 4:02am

So guys, today I decided to live on the edge and take on a SECOND computer screen at work. It’s another Dell wide screen but a different panel.

I’ve only had it rigged up for 20 minutes and just looking at it for a few minutes has sent me into a dizzy land that I haven’t dealt with for well over a year now. I feel totally seasick and mixed up in my head. Just cannot believe that after 10 YEARS (on the 30th of August) that this screen crap still bothers me. Visual vertigo alive and well dammit. :shock:

robertgreen99 · August 13, 2013, 8:14am

I would say the computer screen and iPhone is my biggest problem.

Do we know what causes this?

methanol · August 13, 2013, 9:53am

I’m the same. I can’t stand my computer screen. Migraines and dizziness triggered by looking at it.

methanol · August 13, 2013, 9:54am

— Begin quote from “robertgreen99”

I would say the computer screen and iPhone is my biggest problem.

Do we know what causes this?

— End quote

I do not know what causes this but if I were to guess it would be eyestrain causing brain overload.

adrir · August 13, 2013, 1:40pm

I was at a hotel this weekend that had a smart TV. I was too nervous to test it out extensively while away from home but the TV portion did not bother me, as usual. Wondering if anyone with such computer issues as us has tried one out.

Barb · August 14, 2013, 4:38am

Cockrel
How are you going with the new BenQ screen? Has your brain got used to it at all? I’ve been pinning my hopes on this one working for me.
Scott - Bad luck not being able to use the new Dell screen - I wonder what makes the visual vertigo so difficult to clear up, particularly where computer screens are involved. My pc screen use is still triggered quite quickly whereas the other visual stuff is pretty much under control now.
Barb

whosthatchick · August 14, 2013, 11:30am

Hi all, i just wanted to say for me, it takes a bout a month then i adapt, but only to my own computer and phone. With an iphone (which my friends have) or ipad my symptoms get immediately worse. I like to think our brains adapt to everything if you give it enough time… that’s the theory with Vestibular physiotherapy too…

Cockrel01 · August 15, 2013, 4:40pm

Hi barb,

Since that last bad migraine attack I haven’t used it again. It’s an expensive ornament at the mo. I plan to try it next week in 20 min bursts.

I had my first physio appt yesterday and asked her about the screen issue. She said its most likely because the migraine is still active and it’s not something the physio will really help with. I’m hopeful that as I’m only at 40% that when the 2nd med is added things will improve. I had the same issue the first spell I had this and it all went away when the migraine went.

I guess if you have a migraine whether its continuous (MAV) or standard migraine, staring into a monitor (light box) and at scrolling text etc isn’t going to help. Each of us suffer from one extreme to another.

One thing I have found that helps is image projection… I have a 10ft projector screen and hd projector at home. If I play ps3 games on tele ill last 15 mins, if I project the image to the big screen but shrink it so that there is a big black border around the picture I am able to play a ps3 game with a reasonable amount of motion for about 2 hours.

I think simply that when we watch tv we sit much further back, there is natural light all around and the light isn’t hurting our eyes. You also find you look away from it at regular intervals…

When we sit at a monitor your a couple of feet away, there is normally the bright white background and your staring constantly at that image.

I can tolerate my iphone but then I have it on auto brightness which makes it much less harsh on the eyes indoors. Also some can tolerate iPads - maybe due to again that there is so much stillness around the screen that your body knows that you are in fact not moving.

There are many variables but this issue can be overcome, if your migraine is even 5 % active it may be enough for screens to trigger things.

Don’t give up, don’t settle for 85, 90 or even 95. I’ve had two very positive stories of friends of my family that had this very same condition with identical symptoms. One is now at 100% after about 20 months, the other is at 85% and is seeking to go further with Dr S. she is even looking at foster caring - she feels so much better.

tomk · October 9, 2014, 9:11am

I ve been suffering with this for 2 years now. It started off at labyrinthitis then mutated somehow into MAV annoyingly. I tried 7 months of VRT but didn’t help. Been to neurologist, optomologist, kinesiologist, homeopath, mdi, osteopath, physic, axon glasses, gunnar glasses, daylight bulbs…. now I’m on 1.5mg pizotifen which has been a godsend but has stopped working after 6 months. I now have weekly episodes and have to take a zolmitriptan pill around thursday every wk. i work as a graphic designer and have wednesdays off work to help my eyes/brain recover. but I’m losing the will….

i recently had my honeymoon which was 2 weeks of bliss and my symptoms went away completely. its definitely just the computers/iphone/ipads that cause my vertigo. i just can’t figure out what causes it within the computers. has anyone tried the new iphone6 as they say the screen pixels are the sharpest yet and wonder if its our brains trying to sharpen/focus on pixels? the gunnar glasses help me a lot but not a miracle.

aaaaagh! also I’m thinking of a career change but with me still paying off my university bill for graphic design i feel annoyed that i can’t work at what i love. my only thought is to become a dog walker haha!

tomk · October 9, 2014, 9:23am

soz meant to say a week after returning from honeymoon i felt amazing at work and on screens but the 2nd wk back at work the vertigo dizziness on computers came back with a vengeance

tomk · October 10, 2014, 10:33am

I ve just bought a projector for my iMac to see if i can work through that….will let you all know how i get on. has anyone tried pizotifen?

Barb · October 10, 2014, 2:06am

tomk

Take a look a jesse’s post under ‘driving & MAV’- he’s done an amazing amount of research on screens and MAV -

There are an awful lot of us MAVers who have this problem! I’ve recently purchased a "non flicker"screen (BenQ) which is definitely helping. I do still keep my usage down to an hour or so at the mo.

Other visual vertigo problems (fluro lights, etc) have been helped with SSRI meds.

Barb

tomk · October 19, 2014, 4:27pm

Projector didn’t work using a tv doesnt work … pouring dizziness still.

boss i think may let me go soon too.

I’m about to try this screen?has anyone else got screen advice?

cheers

tom

scott · October 19, 2014, 8:41pm

Hi guys,

I’m back in the shitter again since upgrading my 2007 iMac to Yosemite on the weekend. The effect from the new layout and fonts etc is massive. Just when I thought I had got past this visual vertigo thing having adapted to a 50" plasma, WHAMMO. It’s day 3 now since installing that new OS and my head is still swimming. I didn’t go near it all day yesterday and still it’s like I’ve decompensated or something.

I’m not giving up but trying to use a method of habituation. I’ll wait for the swimming head to stop and will re-expose for about 15 min then stop again. Small doses over time to see if my brain stops this craziness.

Scott

whitepines · October 19, 2014, 10:14pm

— Begin quote from “tomk”

Projector didn’t work using a tv doesnt work … pouring dizziness still.

— End quote

Just a word of advice…if you tried a DLP projector (most common/cheapest type available) you were subjecting yourself to rapid flicker as the projector cycled between the three primary colors to make an image. I don’t have MAV (from what the doctors can tell) but years back a cheapie DLP projector was quite unpleasant to use when I tried it, giving eyestrain very fast and eventually headache too. (Google DLP rainbow effect for more info–non-migraineurs have all kinds of trouble with these projectors; it depends more on visual system hardwiring and flicker fusion thresholds than anything else. Don’t blame everything on migraine, it’s a bad habit to get into!). That DLP projector was returned and I went with a used 3LCD model instead–the difference was night and day in terms of both eyestrain and overall picture quality.

Many TVs also flicker and have lousy processing artifacts so that might not have been a valid test either.

Hope this helps!

Jesse · October 28, 2014, 6:17pm

— Begin quote from “Barb”

tomk

Take a look a jesse’s post under ‘driving & MAV’- he’s done an amazing amount of research on screens and MAV -

There are an awful lot of us MAVers who have this problem! I’ve recently purchased a "non flicker"screen (BenQ) which is definitely helping. I do still keep my usage down to an hour or so at the mo.

Other visual vertigo problems (fluro lights, etc) have been helped with SSRI meds.

Barb

— End quote

Hi everyone, I just noticed Barb’s reference to my post here in this chain. I have been combing through this site as much as I can tolerate and often as possible. When I first encountered LED lighting before being let go by my employer I started a website called Lightsickness.com, funny how I found this forum only a month ago and have now been diagnosed with MAV. All those years of research and studying and there was a home out there all along where people are having the same reactions to the same triggers I am!

So I did post a long explanation about monitors and my findings in the post “Driving with MAV” so I will not get into that again but I wanted to share some other thoughts since reading a few more posts in the general discussion forums.

1: A lot of people are having issues driving. Something I am not sure everyone realizes is how many cars now have LED tail lights and head lights, also all signage is going LED. If your symptoms are triggered by driving it could be the movement triggering Vertigo OR if your symptoms come on as you sit in traffic on a dark commute it could be all the lighting around you. I drive only from 9AM-3PM during winter month’s because when there is no sun light there is nothing to “wash out” the offensive auto lights, also there is less traffic. Food for thought:)

2: For some reason Apple products of recent years are the most offensive for many, even some who just get eye strain/headaches but do not seem to have MAV. Interestingly enough from what I gather Apple screens are not using PWM for dimming so flicker should be less of an issue. I myself am triggered by any LED whether there is subliminal flicker or not, could just be the white/blue bright LED back light is a trigger in itself (Spectrum). This Apple forum post has been going on for years because it is not just people with MAV who are having issues with Apple screens: discussions.apple.com/message/2 … 6#26927578

3: My MOST Comfortable set up for computing at this time: I am using a Pioneer 4280HD Kuro Plasma (Plasma does not flicker) and Crizal Provencia coated no-script glasses with a small amount of Prism to correct some “eye drift”. I try to keep my time with computing to under 1 hour a day, it is better if I do not use it at all. While I could almost comfortably sit in front of it for 2 hours I then become pre-symptomatic to every other trigger such as driving, we all know what follows from there if we do not hide in a dark room. Unfortunately the newer Plasma monitors seem “Harsher” in brightness to me and I find them less usable, also Plasma is a dying technology, ugh!

Even “Flicker free” monitors may not work and you need to understand how a LED light source works to understand why. LED is so reactive to any power delivery change it could be pulsating or flickering even if they do not use technology like PWM.

Hope this is helpful to some, I have started back up on the medication trials now that I have a MAV diagnoses, guess we will see what happens…

Jesse

andy_o · November 20, 2014, 2:19am

— Begin quote from “scott”

Hi guys,

I’m back in the shitter again since upgrading my 2007 iMac to Yosemite on the weekend. The effect from the new layout and fonts etc is massive. Just when I thought I had got past this visual vertigo thing having adapted to a 50" plasma, WHAMMO. It’s day 3 now since installing that new OS and my head is still swimming. I didn’t go near it all day yesterday and still it’s like I’ve decompensated or something.

I’m not giving up but trying to use a method of habituation. I’ll wait for the swimming head to stop and will re-expose for about 15 min then stop again. Small doses over time to see if my brain stops this craziness.

Scott

— End quote

wow my vertigo got worse around the time I update to yosemite!!! My eyes can’t take it after a while

dan98 · November 30, 2014, 12:00pm

Hi all,
Just thought I’d chip in here as I’ve had long term inexplicable dizziness / discomfort issues using certain screens and was very interested to read of other’s experiences.
I never had a problem before LEDs came along, but strangely am only affected in some cases.
I was really looking forward to getting a Macbook Pro to replace my creaking PC laptop, but sadly it seems to be one of the worst offenders (2011 non retina 15"), and is pretty much unusable. I’m afraid to buy any new Mac stuff incase it suffers the same way.
I’ve had a similar problem with TVs, and have had to return 2 or 3 screens from the likes of Sony and Pioneer. Now I’m settled with an old and fairly crappy LG LCD.

LED screens I can tolerate no problem include Sony Vaio SVS1313S9EB and Lenovo U450.

More recently I’ve started to suffer from Labyrinthitis, and have yet to take medication for it. Who knows, perhaps its connected.

Cheers,
Dan.

GoDaddy · December 8, 2014, 10:01am

The computer use can be the killer while the biggest helper is the blue light. Blue light can be emitted from your computer, iPhone, iMac, TV screen. It can easily make your eyes fatigue and headache. It also wrecks your sleep by blocking melatonin production, which has the direct connection with your sleep and health. Actually I searched and tried some solutions. These are what I collected; I hope it could help most of eye discomfort.

Screen Location Ideally more than 25 inches from eye and 6 inches below the horizontal eye level. Anti-glare screen Will decrease the amount of light reflected from the screen.

Light effect Use suspended lights from ceiling and windows with shades, blinds or curtains. Avoid light hitting directly on eyes.

20-20-20 rule Follow the 20-20-20 rule, which means every 20 minutes, look away from the monitor, and focus on an object at least 20 feet away, for 20 seconds.

Eye Exercise Choose your eyes and slowly roll your eyeballs clockwise and anticlockwise. Repeat it 3 times.

**Blinking **Blink frequently to keep the front surface of your eye moist.

Blue Light Blocking Glasses To block the blue light, glare, and radiation when in computer and mobile device use. It works better than a monitor or screen protector.

Throw Away iPhone iPad before Sleep Get prepared for sleeping before 2 hours and don’t play with digital devices. Turn them off.

bikemalt · December 21, 2014, 4:30pm

Hi, I too suffer from this problem to the extent that I have to resign from my well paid job and I am struggling. To date nothing has worked, I have tried a BenQ 120Hz monitor but to no avail. Funnily enough my 100 HZ LCD TV causes me no problems. Unfortunately using it as a monitor reduces frequency output to 60Hz. I have tried 100% brightness settings. OLED tablet didn’t work either. Medication is ineffective, currently on Topiramate. Unless I get solution quickly my degree and 20s years career is down the swanee. Any one had a full ablation of symptoms medication wise or technically. I have read about botox as a possible tx. Anyone tried this?